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Wooden aircraft vs. metal

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Chris In Marshfield

Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:09 am Post subject: Wooden aircraft vs. metal

Hi all,



I've had my eye on several wooden aircraft as of late, one being completely wooden, and a couple having wooden wings and metal bodies.  I've started considering them as potential project candidates because I've got plenty of woodworking tools, but would have to invest in a fair amount of tooling if I were to build a sheetmetal aircraft or an aircraft with sheetmetal wings.



At first, from reading various articles and postings here and there across the Net, I'd have thought that the cost to construct a wooden aircraft would be less than a metal one.  However, after looking at the current prices of wood versus the sheets of aluminum, it doesn't look like I'd be gaining much in the way of cost savings (tool costs not withstanding).  But I haven't done a complete cost analysis since I don't have any particular wooden aircraft plans to work with.



Does anyone here have experience with both types that can offer any kind of comparison between them, cost or otherwise?  I'm not tied to any particular construction method, but am partial to high-wing aircraft such as the Bearhawk (disclaimer: I have plans for this one in hand), Christavia Mk-IV, Falconar S14 Maranda, and Bakeng Deuce.



Thanks for any thoughts you may have.



Best regards,

Chris

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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI

steve(at)byu.edu
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: Wooden aircraft vs. metal

Chris,

Just get started.  Forget about counting cost.  I have neither time or

money and I still do it.  Any costs you can anticipate will be

overshadowed by unforeseen ones later.  If you really are concerned

about steel vs Aluminum vs wood, buy someones' half-finished project.

Every material has gone up in price since I started in this hobby 10

years ago.  It is still worth it.  I started by building a pietenpol for

$5000 in materials, including engine and paint.  I bet I could still do

it for less than $10K.



Advice: worth what you paid for it....

Steve E



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EuropaXSA276(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: Wooden aircraft vs. metal

Chris:

 Have you considered a composite aircraft? Many of your on hand wood working tools and skills will apply to that type of construction. 

 In my humble opinion you get the best bang for the buck with composite construction.  

 But the other gentleman had it right. Start a project that you want to fly. You are in this for the long haul and the money does not go away all at once. So build something that will keep your interest for a number of years. That's how long it will take to build the darn thing!

  

 Brian Skelly

Europa XS TriGear #A276

North Texas USA

You can see my build photos at:

http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: Wooden aircraft vs. metal

When I was  teenager my father built a Volmer Jensen Design VJ22 Sportsman

Amphib.  This was a wood fuselage but he installed Aeronca Champ wings.  As

I remember it too get everything to fit right took about ten hours of

thinking for every hour of actual doing.  I lot of the "grunt" work I got to

do. While dad did all the fitting and planning into shape.



The most difficult part of the actual hands on work was getting the aircraft

grade mahogany plywood and then driving those tiny soft brass nails through

such incredibly hard wood.  Every joint was glued with waterproof resorcinol

glue, Nailed with brass nails (much longer than tacks) and then clamped

tightly until the glue set.



After all the wood work was done there was a lot of finish work done with

fibre glass.  When you get to that stage I can recommend a good sealed suit

to keep the dust from getting into your clothes. And a good respirator.  The

new epoxies in some ways are far superior and easier materials to work with

than the old poly-urethane but you can develop a sensitivity to them very

easily.  



Some of the metal planes are self jigging (Zenith) and except for the

compressor and the riveter should be buildable with the tools found around a

well equipped garage.  I won't tell you they can be built with a Swiss army

knife as the first line tool.  But construction should be fairly easily if

you pay very close attention to the construction manual.  There's lots of

grunt work there too.  I figure about a bazillion holes have to be de-burred

edges rounded and chamfered Etc.Etc.



If you don't mind buying a frame, tube and rag will probably get you in the

air the fastest.  I only recommend starting from a supply of 4130 steel tube

if you are a very accomplished welder and have all the welding equipment.

That type of construction lends itself more to assembly but there is still a

surprising amount of fabrication that needs to be done.



Composite aircraft really need to be bought in kit form.  The building of

moulds for a "one of plane is immensely expen$$$$ive!!!  Bought as a kit you

can have a great plane.  The important thing is to ensure all your glue

joints are good with no voids any where  Again a proper Composites closed

suit and respirator will be a first line requirement.  Bring money, a lot of

these designs also like to use large engines to drive the planes even

faster!  



Depending on the type of flying you expect to be doing you may want to check

into the "Sport Pilot" class of aviation.  Planes are small, relatively

inexpensive compared to GA, available BUT there are many restrictions which

you personally may find too limiting. 



On April 12, 2007 that's the way I see it.



Good luck



Noel



[quote] --

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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Chris In Marshfield

Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Wooden aircraft vs. metal

I appreciate your thoughts and insights, everyone.



It seems everyone has their own favorite airframe type, and that's great.  Each has its own advantages.  



From what I can see and from the replies I've seen here, there's really no cost benefit of choosing one form over another.  Each is fraught with monetary peril and has its own set of advantages, so I should just choose the aircraft I like the most and roll with it.



Now I just have to explain all the good stuff to my wife   



Thanks and best regards,

Chris

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Chris Owens
Waunakee, WI

jpl(at)showpage.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: Wooden aircraft vs. metal

Chris,



If cost is the overdriving concern but you want a "real" airplane (as  

opposed to something made out of tube and fabric and a lawnmower- 

sized engine), then my recommendation would be to consider choice of  

engines.



The RV-9 can be built more economically than some other airplanes out  

there, but still gives you fabulous performance.  The economy comes  

from allowing a smaller, less expensive engine.



Stick in a basic VFR-only panel and you don't have to spend an arm  

and a leg.



Another choice would be to first find an engine, then pick a design  

that takes the engine.



If you manage the cost of the panel (which can be done if you go  

basic VFR), then the next biggest cost is usually the engine.  The  

engine for my -6A will cost more than the airframe (at least that  

part of the airframe that goes to Van's).  Your biggest savings comes  

from smart engine choice.



-Joe



On Apr 12, 2007, at 10:39 AM, Chris In Madison wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <cowens(at)cnw.com>



 I appreciate your thoughts and insights, everyone.



 It seems everyone has their own favorite airframe type, and that's  

 great.  Each has its own advantages.



> From what I can see and from the replies I've seen here, there's  

> really no cost benefit of choosing one form over another.  Each is  

> fraught with monetary peril and has its own set of advantages, so  

> I should just choose the aircraft I like the most and roll with it.



 Now I just have to explain all the good stuff to my wife  



 Thanks and best regards,

 Chris



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