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re. gasohol

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by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: re. gasohol

| Would moisture have a chance to rust anything with the Pennzoil?  I 

can see

| synthetic allowing rust, but natural oil?

| Larry, Oregon

I cant remember where I read this,,  but a natural mineral oil was better

for corrosion protection against moisture,,,,   but synthetic oil was better

at reducing friction wear,,,   so I use a mineral oil and synthetic  blend.



Like john mentions an engine not run up to temps is more likely to have

condensation  and moisture left in the system than an engine run at proper

temps.   As to the alcohol or no alcohol in the gas should not make any

difference.....   any time you burn a hydrocarbon in an engine  it will

produce varing amounts of carbon  c   carbon monoxide   co   and carbon

dioxide   co2   and h2o as byproducts,  so all the moisture in an engine

does not come from the alcohol,,,,  it comes from the gas...   the alcohol

in the engine will prevent water buildup in the fuel system including  the

fuel tank and carb bowls.



Boyd

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: re. gasohol

so all the moisture in an engine

| does not come from the alcohol,,,,  it comes from the gas...   the 

alcohol

| in the engine will prevent water buildup in the fuel system 

including  the

| fuel tank and carb bowls.

|

| Boyd

Boyd:



I think a major consideration is everything that is pulled through the 

carb goes through the crankcase in a two stroke before it gets to the 

upper end of the engine.



Will this be a major factor in determining moisture/corrosion of 

bearings on the crank shaft?



john h

mkIII

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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: re. gasohol

At 11:49 PM 4/14/2007, boyd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Like john mentions an engine not run up to temps is more likely to have

condensation  and moisture left in the system than an engine run at proper

temps.   As to the alcohol or no alcohol in the gas should not make any

difference.....   any time you burn a hydrocarbon in an engine  it will

produce varing amounts of carbon  c   carbon monoxide   co   and carbon

dioxide   co2   and h2o as byproducts,  so all the moisture in an engine

does not come from the alcohol,,,,  it comes from the gas...   the alcohol

in the engine will prevent water buildup in the fuel system including  the

fuel tank and carb bowls.


	


The problem is not the water produced by burning hydrocarbons, but the fact 

that the alcohol absorbs water.  In small quantities it's not a problem; as 

you say it absorbs any water buildup in the tank (up to a point), but if 

that water comes back out of solution it can lead to corrosion in the 

internal parts (crankcase and bearings) before it ever gets into the 

cylinders to be burned.



                                 -Dana

--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

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by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: re. gasohol

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>

Boyd:
	




I think a major consideration is everything that is pulled through the 

carb goes through the crankcase in a two stroke before it gets to the 

upper end of the engine.



Will this be a major factor in determining moisture/corrosion of 

bearings on the crank shaft?



john h

mkIII 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


John



I think that the major factor in determining moisture/corrosion on the crank

shaft would be 



1  frequency of use...  in an engine that is used only infrequently will

allow the oil protecting the metal parts  to drain off leaving it exposed to

whatever is in the environment.



2   temp of the engine when shut down.   If it is shut down cold the

possibility of condensation is much greater,



3   the type of oil...  synthetics drain off the metal parts faster than

mineral oil.  And could also reduce proper  lubrication on start up. [ if

infrequently used] ( I've been using mineral / synthetics  blend...you get

the best of both worlds)



4   the humidity of the air where the engine is stored...  would affect

1,2,and 3 above.



In a 2 stroke the biggest worry for me would be keeping the dust and dirt

out by the use of a good filter,,  the moisture would be of little concern

if operated correctly. The heat in the engine will keep the moisture boiled

out.  The oil in the fuel should coat and protect everything from the

moisture.  Even in a 4 stroke,, the moisture from humidity /combustion

process will end up in the bottom end...   just at a smaller percent.

Remember you are using blow by to force the oil back to the oil tank.   And

all the same precautions concerning moisture  apply.



If putting any engine away for any length of time,,,  it would be very

beneficial to use some type of fogging / storage oil just before shutdown.

The fogging oil is designed to stick to the parts without draining off and

protecting the engine parts.   



I read in a magazine where a gentleman would turn the prop over once or

twice a month  over a years time till he sold the engine/plane ,,, his

thought process was to keep things moving.....  but turning it over without

getting the oil up to temp and pressure,, caused the rings to scrap all the

remaining oil off the cylinder walls and the bearings went dry...  when the

engine was finally fired up it had very poor performance,  the teardown

showed a multitude of moisture related  problems...  moral of the story was

run it properly or store it properly,,  anything else will cause problems.  

Boyd

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by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: re. gasohol

The problem is not the water produced by burning hydrocarbons, but the fact 

that the alcohol absorbs water.  In small quantities it's not a problem; as 

you say it absorbs any water buildup in the tank (up to a point), but if 

that water comes back out of solution it can lead to corrosion in the 

internal parts (crankcase and bearings) before it ever gets into the 

cylinders to be burned.



                                 -Dana

Dana..



Any alcohol in the tank will not reach outside the tank to find extra

moisture to absorb...  it will  only work on what is already in the tank....

thus if you fill the tank when done flying and force all the high humidity

air from the tank before it has a chance to condensate on the tank walls and

enter into the gasohol mix you will minimize the problem....  



Still in my opinion,, the greatest amount of problems associated with

alcohol in the gas is the corrosion to storage tanks and seals used in the

system.  NOT corrosion problems in the combustion process.



Boyd

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