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Gasohol, gascolators

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d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

At 03:38 PM 4/18/2007, henry.voris wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		            If you're worried about water contaminated gasohol carrying 

 moisture to the innards of your two-stroke engine and rusting the 

 bearings... it ain't gonna happen. There are plenty of bad things about 

 gasohol but this isn't one of them.

         The ethanol in the gasohol not only attracts water, it forms a 

 little cage around each water molecule. To get them to separate takes 

 adding another alcohol and a two step distillation process....learn to 

 live with the lead (check plugs and for carbon more frequently).... If ya 

 gotta use gasohol install a gascolator so you can catch any problems 

 before they get to your carburetor...


	


That's interesting... my understanding has always been that methanol, at 

least, is a problem for corrosion.  Does ethanol react that much 

differently?  Or is it a problem mainly because methanol based fuels (e.g. 

model glow fuel) is mostly methanol, rather than the 10% in gasohol?  Then 

there's the coming E85 fuel, which is 85% ethanol...



Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass 

bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining 

it.  All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and 

all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no 

drain.  I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my 

Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter.  Anybody 

got any suggestions?



                                 -Dana



do not archive



--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

At 04:37 PM 4/18/07 -0400, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass 

bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining 

it.  All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and 

all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no 

drain.  I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my 

Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter.  Anybody 

got any suggestions?




	


Dana,



If you are just interested in seeing if water is dropping out, there is a 

small one available for motorcycles that can be purchased from:



http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com



Part # Z90395 - $9.95



In eight years, I have never found water in the Bing float bowl.  I drain my 

five gallon tank in the spring and the most water I have found is between 

the volume of a nickel or a dime.  Water does accumulate in my gas cans.  I 

use four 2.5 gallon gas cans to transfer fuel.  I always leave about a cup 

of fuel in the cans.  This keeps the water in the cans and along with enough 

fuel so that when I put in oil, the oil is already some what premixed before 

refilling at the gas station.  I remove the water from the transfer cans 

once a year.



For what it is worth.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Maybe there's a reason why some people have moved away from glass bowls:



NTSB Identification: FTW95LA072

Accident occurred Saturday, December 24, 1994 in LA PORTE, TX

"LOSS OF ENGINE POWER DUE TO FUEL STARVATION AS RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE GLASS BOWL ON THE GASCOLATOR." 



NTSB Identification: LAX95LA150

Accident occurred Friday, March 31, 1995 in EL CAJON, CA

"a loss of engine power due to an in-flight separation of the fuel system gascolator glass bowl resulting in a premature fuel exhaustion"



Ehhh, naw, maybe the NTSB was just looking for SOMEthing and could only come up with a broken glass bowl (probably caused by the crash).   



Or not.



  -- Robert



do not archive



On 4/18/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague < d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>



At 03:38 PM 4/18/2007, henry.voris wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		            If you're worried about water contaminated gasohol carrying

 moisture to the innards of your two-stroke engine and rusting the 

 bearings... it ain't gonna happen. There are plenty of bad things about

 gasohol but this isn't one of them.

         The ethanol in the gasohol not only attracts water, it forms a

 little cage around each water molecule. To get them to separate takes 

 adding another alcohol and a two step distillation process....learn to

 live with the lead (check plugs and for carbon more frequently).... If ya

 gotta use gasohol install a gascolator so you can catch any problems 

 before they get to your carburetor...


	


That's interesting... my understanding has always been that methanol, at

least, is a problem for corrosion.  Does ethanol react that much

differently?  Or is it a problem mainly because methanol based fuels ( e.g.

model glow fuel) is mostly methanol, rather than the 10% in gasohol?  Then

there's the coming E85 fuel, which is 85% ethanol...



Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass 

bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining

it.  All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and

all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no

 drain.  I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my

Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter.  Anybody

got any suggestions?



                                 -Dana

 

[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

This subject came up a bit ago, and I'll repeat my comment from then - I have a Racor marine fuel filter/separator on my boat that has a replaceable filter element (like a standard oil filter) and a plastic (I think polycarbonate, but not certain) see-thru bowl.  Easy to see water in the fuel, easy to change, not too expensive, and not too large.  I got it because I was fishing in Baja and buying gas down there.  Never did have a problem, but it's nice to be sure.  Important on the water, more important on Mexican water, and really important in the air.                           Lar. 



 On 4/18/07, Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)> wrote: [quote]Maybe there's a reason why some people have moved away from glass bowls:



NTSB Identification:  FTW95LA072

Accident occurred Saturday, December 24, 1994 in LA PORTE, TX

"LOSS OF ENGINE POWER DUE TO FUEL STARVATION AS RESULT OF THE FAILURE OF THE GLASS BOWL ON THE GASCOLATOR." 



NTSB Identification:  LAX95LA150

Accident occurred Friday, March 31, 1995 in EL CAJON, CA

"a loss of engine power due to an in-flight separation of the fuel system gascolator glass bowl resulting in a premature fuel exhaustion" 



Ehhh, naw, maybe the NTSB was just looking for SOMEthing and could only come up with a broken glass bowl (probably caused by the crash).  



Or not.



  -- Robert



do not archive



 On 4/18/07, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net  (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague <  d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>



At 03:38 PM 4/18/2007, henry.voris wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		            If you're worried about water contaminated gasohol carrying

 moisture to the innards of your two-stroke engine and rusting the  

 bearings... it ain't gonna happen. There are plenty of bad things about

 gasohol but this isn't one of them.

         The ethanol in the gasohol not only attracts water, it forms a

 little cage around each water molecule. To get them to separate takes  

 adding another alcohol and a two step distillation process....learn to

 live with the lead (check plugs and for carbon more frequently).... If ya

 gotta use gasohol install a gascolator so you can catch any problems  

 before they get to your carburetor...


	


That's interesting... my understanding has always been that methanol, at

least, is a problem for corrosion.  Does ethanol react that much

differently?  Or is it a problem mainly because methanol based fuels (  e.g.

model glow fuel) is mostly methanol, rather than the 10% in gasohol?  Then

there's the coming E85 fuel, which is 85% ethanol...



Re the gascolators... on my Taylorcraft I had a gascolator with a glass  

bowl, which was nice because I could see what was in it before draining

it.  All the aircraft gascolatars I can find nowadays are all metal, and

all the automotive or power equipment ones are small and have no

 drain.  I'd like to put a glass bowl gascolator-- with a drain-- on my

Ultrastar, replacing (or supplementing) the inline fuel filter.  Anybody

got any suggestions?



                                 -Dana

 



	
[b]

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Lar --



Is this the one:



http://reddenmarine.com/site/new-detail.cfm?id=RAC215R2



  -- Robert



On 4/18/07,  Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com (biglar(at)gogittum.com)> wrote:[quote] This subject came up a bit ago, and I'll repeat my comment from then - I have a Racor marine fuel filter/separator on my boat that has a replaceable filter element (like a standard oil filter) and a plastic (I think polycarbonate, but not certain) see-thru bowl.  Easy to see water in the fuel, easy to change, not too expensive, and not too large.  I got it because I was fishing in Baja and buying gas down there.  Never did have a problem, but it's nice to be sure.  Important on the water, more important on Mexican water, and really important in the air.                           Lar. [b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

At 07:07 PM 4/18/2007, Jack B. Hart wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  If you are just interested in seeing if water is dropping out, there is a

small one available for motorcycles that can be purchased from:



http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com



Part # Z90395 - $9.95


	


Problem with that one (like the tractor parts) is no drain, unless you 

remove the bowl each time... messy.  The aircraft gascolator on my T-Craft 

had a glass tube between a metal top and bottom, with the drain in the bottom.



                                 -Dana

--

--

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Perty close, Robert, but that one's for a diesel.  Mine has a smaller filter section, and a larger, blue colored bowl.  The whole thing's a little bigger than my fist.                   Lar.



 On 4/18/07, Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)> wrote: [quote]Lar --



Is this the one:



 http://reddenmarine.com/site/new-detail.cfm?id=RAC215R2



  -- Robert



 On 4/18/07, Larry Bourne <biglar(at)gogittum.com (biglar(at)gogittum.com) > wrote:   	  Quote: 	
		  This subject came up a bit ago, and I'll repeat my comment from then - I have a Racor marine fuel filter/separator on my boat that has a replaceable filter element (like a standard oil filter) and a plastic (I think polycarbonate, but not certain) see-thru bowl.  Easy to see water in the fuel, easy to change, not too expensive, and not too large.  I got it because I was fishing in Baja and buying gas down there.  Never did have a problem, but it's nice to be sure.  Important on the water, more important on Mexican water, and really important in the air.                           Lar.  	




 	  Quote: 	
		  

	
[b]

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Just saw a really small gascolator at SnF. It was on a new version of an  Easy Riser.

 BTW, got to see John Moody fly an original Riser late yesterday in 25 mph  winds.

  

  

 The gascolator was available from Briggs and Stratton at a mower  store.

  

  

 Steve



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:43 am Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

[quote]   Just saw a really small gascolator at SnF. It was on a new version of an    Easy Riser.

   BTW, got to see John Moody fly an original Riser late yesterday in 25 mph    winds.

    

    

   The gascolator was available from Briggs and Stratton at a mower    store.

    

    

   Steve

   

Steve,

   Did it have a sump drain and glass bowel?

    

   Denny Rowe

[b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:51 am Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Why don't you guys build your own as per the instructions put on the list  earlier in the year? The cost is two PVC caps, a short piece of PVC, two nylon  fuel barbs, and a ?Murphy? drain valve for 17.50 that comes out the bottom of  your airplane to drain it. I forgot you will also need a tube of thread sealer  as well. Mine works well. 

 Larry, Oregon

 do not archive (am I the only one using this feature?)

 [quote]   ---

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Gasohol, gascolators

Dana,Larry all,



I made mine from a small block of aluminum and a certified sump. Mine can be sumped from the back of the plane at the lowest point in the system with the little sample cup like the spam can guys use  

do not archive

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

In a message dated 4/19/2007 9:44:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  rowedenny(at)windstream.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Steve,

   Did it have a sump drain and glass bowel?

    

   Denny Rowe

	


 

 yup

  

 steve



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Steve,

 Please give me that part number again, I think I want one.

  

 Denny

 [quote]   ---

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 365

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:10 am Post subject: Gasohol, gascolators

Denny

  

 no part #. Going back to show today, I will get more info

  

 steve



See what's free at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

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