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Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Hi! All  

  I’m sensitive to all eyes being focused but quite independently from the present furore I have been asked where the original suggestion came from re:- radially slotting the Tail plane pip pin holes to ensure they imparted no drive but were only as retention pins.  

My initial response was from a Europa Aircraft Tech Bulletin ….would those who know for definite please confirm or otherwise.  

Regards  

Bob H G-PTAG  

   

Robt.C.Harrison  

   

       [quote][b]

jron.jones(at)tiscali.co.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Hi Bob,

 Slotting the pip-pin holes in the torque tube was  recommended to me by Neville - in the presence of Ivan and Andy. It makes good  sense and I slotted mine about 1 mm in each direction. Thank goodness, I have no  free play anywhere but my pip-pin recesses are non-standard (but IMHO, much  better!)

 Regards,

 Ron Jones.

 G-RJWX (XS 359)

  [quote][b]

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Several Europa pilots have commented on the fact  that my pip pins are a loose fit in the torque tube and advised I should drill  them properly and fit oversize pins. Fortunately I never got round to it which  seems to have been a blessing in disguise.

  

 Another cause of the sleeves disbonding is  transporting the tailplanes on the Europa trailer. This places a direct strain  on the TP6 sleeve, much more that caused by flying or taxying over "rough  ground".

  

 I would suggest that if you trailer the tailplanes  on the trailer, regular checks of the TP6 sleeves would be a good  idea.

  

 Carl Pattinson

 G-LABS

  

  

 [quote]   ---

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Ron and others

  

 There must be some limit on the amount lengthening  into slots - otherwise the pip pin balls will ot have anything to grip on in the  radial direction.........?

  

 JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Bob

the slots are in the torque tube only, not the TP6. Its the TP6 that 

holds the pip pin in

Graham



Laptop JR wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ron and others

  

 There must be some limit on the amount lengthening into slots - 

 otherwise the pip pin balls will ot have anything to grip on in the 

 radial direction.........?

  

 JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz

  *
	




-- 

Graham Singleton



Tel: +441629820187

Mob: +447739582005

m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:36 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Not so, because the pip pin balls will grip the bottom of the TP 6 sleeve, which has holes that remains circular and reasonably close fitting.  The elongation is made to the holes in the torque tube so that it will not impart a twisting couple to the pip pin and hence increase the risk of disbonding the sleeve.  

   

Mike  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Laptop JR

 Sent: 22 June 2007 23:06

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?  

  

     

Ron and others  

    

   

    

There must be some limit on the amount lengthening into slots - otherwise the pip pin balls will ot have anything to grip on in the radial direction.........?  

    

   

    

JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz  

    

   

    

do not archive  

  [quote]    

---

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Carl, I can confirm the trailer aspect. Before first flight I towed my 

Europa for 1000 km on bumpy Canadian roads. At the end of the trip the 

inboard TP5's had worked themselves loose. I pulled them out and rebonded 

them with floxed redux. No problems since then. But those vertical supports 

on the trailer should never be used. I now carry the tailplanes in the back 

of my car.



Karl





[quote]From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl(at)flyers.freeserve.co.uk>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:51:35 +0100



Several Europa pilots have commented on the fact that my pip pins are a 

loose fit in the torque tube and advised I should drill them properly and 

fit oversize pins. Fortunately I never got round to it which seems to have 

been a blessing in disguise.



Another cause of the sleeves disbonding is transporting the tailplanes on 

the Europa trailer. This places a direct strain on the TP6 sleeve, much 

more that caused by flying or taxying over "rough ground".



I would suggest that if you trailer the tailplanes on the trailer, regular 

checks of the TP6 sleeves would be a good idea.



Carl Pattinson

G-LABS

   ---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Bob

the slotting was circumferential wasn't it? Anyway, you are right, it 

was factory recommendation

Graham



R.C.Harrison wrote:

  radially slotting the Tail plane pip pin holes to ensure they

 	  Quote: 	
		   imparted no drive but were only as retention pins.

 

 My initial response was from a Europa Aircraft Tech Bulletin ….

 Bob H G-PTAG

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Thank you Mike Gregory

  

 I should have reviewed the drawings before making a  noise!

  

 JR Bob Gowing UK Kit 327

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

OK Graham and any others coming later -



I opened my mouth too quickly and regret wasting everyone 's time.



JR        and do not archive



---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

No worries mate!

btw Kingsley was here a few days ago, he checked out my new house for me!

Graham



Laptop JR wrote:

[quote] 

 

 OK Graham and any others coming later -

 

 I opened my mouth too quickly and regret wasting everyone 's time.

 

 JR        and do not archive

 

 ---

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Graha;m

I hope it passed the test!

JR

Do not archive

---

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Hello Bob



"There must be some limit on the amount lengthening into slots - otherwise

the pip pin balls will ot have anything to grip on in the radial

direction.........?"



The pip pin balls grab onto the outer bushing, so the length of slot will

not effect the security of the pip pins if the balls are downward of the

outer bushing.



That said, remember that the torque tube is a spar. Vertical holes of pip

pins are outboard, but vertical holes weaken more than horizontal holes. I

ovaled mine to allow just a bit more than 1/2" at TE of stabilators.



Don't consider putting vertical holes in spar more inboard for obvious

reason.



Ron Parigoris

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

We removed the tailplane supports from the trailer the day it arrived. We 

knew from others that this could cause the TP5 bond to break. They have 

always been carried in the back of the car (on blankets).

---

jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Hi Bob,

 Factory news letter number 21 seems to cover this  in the tech talk, page 14 entitled "torque tube".

 Regards, Jon 

 [quote]   ---

willie.harrison(at)tinyon
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:45 am Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Is this available on line anywhere?

Willie

On 24 Jun 2007, at 08:37, Jon Smith wrote:

[quote]Hi Bob,

Factory news letter number 21 seems to cover this in the tech talk, page 14 entitled "torque tube".

Regards, Jon

[quote]---

n100rh(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

There are probably many of us, like myself that never get the factory 

news letter. How do we get it? Or, could someone post the pip pin article?

Ralph

Reno, NV



Jon Smith wrote:

[quote] Hi Bob,

 Factory news letter number 21 seems to cover this in the tech talk, 

 page 14 entitled "torque tube".

 Regards, Jon



     ---

Brian Davies

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 124
Location: uk

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

Hi Ralph,



This is one of the services the Europa Club provides.  If you join I can

send you a CD with all of the back issues of the factory newsletters.  Just

go to www.europaclub.org.uk



Brian Davies, membership secretary, Europa Club



--

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:48 am Post subject: Extension of outboard Tailplane pip pin holes?

This is a hit in my mind also!

  

 I hated the idea and removed

 those ugly dicks from my trailer

 to avoid any temptation to even consider

 to transport tailplanes in them.

  

 They feel good in my car´s trunk

 (isolated by white styro foam).

  

 Raimo

 [quote]   Another cause of the sleeves disbonding is    transporting the tailplanes on the Europa trailer. This places a direct strain    on the TP6 sleeve, much more that caused by flying or taxying over "rough    ground".

   Carl Pattinson

   G-LABS

    

[b]

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