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Priming

 
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shfeher(at)rockwellcollin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

I'm new here so please excuse me if:

a.  This question has been asked and beat to death already
b.  If this is not the right forum for this question

I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this fall.  I built an RV-6 empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our family, hence the decision to build the ten.

The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more than I can say was the preparation and subsequent priming of all parts before assembly.

Recently, I have been talking with a number of professional airplane types (A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming "and just build it".  They cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never primed and many are still flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years.  Since I plan to hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean, I am inclined to take their advice.  But.....it seems all of you guys are priming yours.  So......what say you?  And if you think priming is really that important, maybe there are some simpler methods or products these days???

Thanks!

Skip


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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

This also happens to answer the question someone asked about "do not archive".  The Matronics list archives every single message that we send as long as it doesn't have the words "do not archive".  In other words it helps to keep things tidy for searching the archives which is where you will find ton's of past emails on this exact subject.  Smile
 
Check through the archives and then ask any other questions you may have, you will find everyone a lot more responsive on the beat to death issues if it's fresh and you have checked the archives first.
 
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shfeher(at)rockwellcollins.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:21 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Priming


I'm new here so please excuse me if:

a.  This question has been asked and beat to death already
b.  If this is not the right forum for this question

I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this fall.  I built an RV-6 empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our family, hence the decision to build the ten.

The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more than I can say was the preparation and subsequent priming of all parts before assembly.

Recently, I have been talking with a number of professional airplane types (A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming "and just build it".  They cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never primed and many are still flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years.  Since I plan to hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean, I am inclined to take their advice.  But.....it seems all of you guys are priming yours.  So......what say you?  And if you think priming is really that important, maybe there are some simpler methods or products these days???

Thanks!

Skip


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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

As suggested look in the archives, but maybe consider going half way but
getting say 75% results.

Maybe Alodine only.

Less messy, no weight, and less impact on the environment then doing all
treatments.

JG.
Quote:
From: <shfeher(at)rockwellcollins.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Priming
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:21:27 -0800

I'm new here so please excuse me if:

a. This question has been asked and beat to death already
b. If this is not the right forum for this question

I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this fall. I built an RV-6
empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our family, hence the decision
to build the ten.

The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more than I can say was the
preparation and subsequent priming of all parts before assembly.

Recently, I have been talking with a number of professional airplane types
(A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming "and just build it". They
cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never primed and many are still
flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years. Since I plan to
hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean, I am inclined to take
their advice. But.....it seems all of you guys are priming yours.
So......what say you? And if you think priming is really that important,
maybe there are some simpler methods or products these days???

Thanks!

Skip


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
shfeher(at)rockwellcollin
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

Understand.  Thanks for the heads up.

do not archive




"RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
02/15/2006 03:54 PM Please respond to
rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To
<rv10-list(at)matronics.com> cc
Subject
RE: Priming




This also happens to answer the question someone asked about "do not archive".  The Matronics list archives every single message that we send as long as it doesn't have the words "do not archive".  In other words it helps to keep things tidy for searching the archives which is where you will find ton's of past emails on this exact subject.  Smile
 
Check through the archives and then ask any other questions you may have, you will find everyone a lot more responsive on the beat to death issues if it's fresh and you have checked the archives first.
 
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of shfeher(at)rockwellcollins.com
Sent:
Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:21 PM
To:
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject:
Priming


I'm new here so please excuse me if:

a.  This question has been asked and beat to death already
b.  If this is not the right forum for this question

I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this fall.  I built an RV-6 empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our family, hence the decision to build the ten.

The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more than I can say was the preparation and subsequent priming of all parts before assembly.

Recently, I have been talking with a number of professional airplane types (A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming "and just build it".  They cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never primed and many are still flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years.  Since I plan to hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean, I am inclined to take their advice.  But.....it seems all of you guys are priming yours.  So......what say you?  And if you think priming is really that important, maybe there are some simpler methods or products these days???

Thanks!

Skip


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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shfeher(at)rockwellcollin
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

How do I access the archives?


do not archive




"John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
02/15/2006 04:29 PM Please respond to
rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To
rv10-list(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
RE: Priming




--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

As suggested look in the archives, but maybe consider going half way but
getting say 75% results.

Maybe Alodine only.

Less messy, no weight, and less impact on the environment then doing all
treatments.

JG.


>From: <shfeher(at)rockwellcollins.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Priming
>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:21:27 -0800
>
>I'm new here so please excuse me if:
>
>a.  This question has been asked and beat to death already
>b.  If this is not the right forum for this question
>
>I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this fall.  I built an RV-6
>empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our family, hence the decision
>to build the ten.
>
>The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more than I can say was the
>preparation and subsequent priming of all parts before assembly.
>
>Recently, I have been talking with a number of professional airplane types
>(A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming "and just build it". They
>cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never primed and many are still
>flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years.  Since I plan to
>hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean, I am inclined to take
>their advice.  But.....it seems all of you guys are priming yours.
>So......what say you?  And if you think priming is really that important,
>maybe there are some simpler methods or products these days???
>
>Thanks!
>
>Skip





                         
-
         -Matt Dralle, List Admin.


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dav1111(at)cox.net
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:42 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

The priming I did was as follows:
 
After drilling and dimpling I primed the joints being riveted together prior to riveting.
 
Heavy traffic areas such as the floor panels, rear seat decks, and baggage floor I also primed the top surface.  The priming helped them hold up real well before final paint.
 
Interior panels which were going to get painted I primed before painting.
 
All the rest I left unprimed.
 
Alcad Aluminum which has not been disturbed, i.e., drilled or dimpled DOES NOT need primer.
 
Russ Daves
#40044 (Cabin top installed)
 
[quote] ---


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bsponcil(at)belinblank.or
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

I've been using a rattle can self-etching primer (SEM) which seems like a decent compromise between effort and results - very little effort and good, albeit non-Mil Spec, results. FWIW - a recent (if not the latest) RVator touched on this very issue.

Do you work in CR?  If so, you're welcome to swing by the Spommert Aircraft Production Facility (aka my garage) to check it out for yourself. Just drop me a line off the list.

-Brian
 
N211BD
#40497
Iowa City, IA
[quote] ---


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shfeher(at)rockwellcollin
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

Thanks, Brian.

No. I am the field sales guy in the NW (live in the Seattle area).  But......I get to CR a lot and will be there the week of March 6th.  I'll send you an e-mail directly and let's try to hook up.

Skip

do not archive



"Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org>
Sent by: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
02/15/2006 08:45 PM Please respond to
rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To
<rv10-list(at)matronics.com> cc
Subject
Re: Priming




I've been using a rattle can self-etching primer (SEM) which seems like a decent compromise between effort and results - very little effort and good, albeit non-Mil Spec, results. FWIW - a recent (if not the latest) RVator touched on this very issue.

Do you work in CR?  If so, you're welcome to swing by the Spommert Aircraft Production Facility (aka my garage) to check it out for yourself. Just drop me a line off the list.
-Brian
 
N211BD
#40497
Iowa City, IA
---


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Back to top
sfdarton(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

John,

Not everyone is priming! Many of us are not, it is a
personal decision that you must make on your own.

Steve 40212 (Priming only the ribs & non alodine
parts)

--- John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> wrote:

Quote:

<indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

As suggested look in the archives, but maybe
consider going half way but
getting say 75% results.

Maybe Alodine only.

Less messy, no weight, and less impact on the
environment then doing all
treatments.

JG.


>From: <shfeher(at)rockwellcollins.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Priming
>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:21:27 -0800
>
>I'm new here so please excuse me if:
>
>a. This question has been asked and beat to death
already
>b. If this is not the right forum for this
question
>
>I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this
fall. I built an RV-6
>empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our
family, hence the decision
>to build the ten.
>
>The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more
than I can say was the
>preparation and subsequent priming of all parts
before assembly.
>
>Recently, I have been talking with a number of
professional airplane types
>(A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming
"and just build it". They
>cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never
primed and many are still
>flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years.
Since I plan to
>hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean,
I am inclined to take
>their advice. But.....it seems all of you guys are
priming yours.
>So......what say you? And if you think priming is
really that important,
>maybe there are some simpler methods or products
these days???
>
>Thanks!
>
>Skip






browse
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FAQ,

Admin.













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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
sfdarton(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

John,

Not everyone is priming! Many of us are not, it is a
personal decision that you must make on your own.

Steve 40212 (Priming only the ribs & non alclad parts)

--- John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> wrote:

Quote:

<indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

As suggested look in the archives, but maybe
consider going half way but
getting say 75% results.

Maybe Alodine only.

Less messy, no weight, and less impact on the
environment then doing all
treatments.

JG.


>From: <shfeher(at)rockwellcollins.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Priming
>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:21:27 -0800
>
>I'm new here so please excuse me if:
>
>a. This question has been asked and beat to death
already
>b. If this is not the right forum for this
question
>
>I will be ordering an RV-10 Empennage Kit this
fall. I built an RV-6
>empennage many years ago, but now have 3 in our
family, hence the decision
>to build the ten.
>
>The part of my RV6 project that I disliked more
than I can say was the
>preparation and subsequent priming of all parts
before assembly.
>
>Recently, I have been talking with a number of
professional airplane types
>(A&Ps) and many are telling me to forget priming
"and just build it". They
>cite examples such as Cessnas, which were never
primed and many are still
>flying with little, or no corrosion after 50 years.
Since I plan to
>hangar my airplane and I don't live near the ocean,
I am inclined to take
>their advice. But.....it seems all of you guys are
priming yours.
>So......what say you? And if you think priming is
really that important,
>maybe there are some simpler methods or products
these days???
>
>Thanks!
>
>Skip






browse
Subscriptions page,
FAQ,

Admin.













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dmasys(at)cox.net
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:04 pm    Post subject: Priming Reply with quote

Quote:
From: "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org>
Date: 2006/02/15 Wed PM 08:45:33 PST
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Priming

I've been using a rattle can self-etching primer (SEM)
which seems like a decent compromise between effort and
results - very little effort and good, albeit non-Mil Spec,
results. FWIW - a recent (if not the latest) RVator touched
on this very issue.

For those of on our second airplane, it's interesting to note that the primer approaches don't even converge after getting some building experience. I used NAPA 7220 rattle can primer on my -7A, while buddy Dan Checkoway went the AKZO epoxy primer route. The self-etching rattle can primer sure was quick -- a Scotchbrite scuff, a quick wipe of MEK, spray it, assemble it ten minutes later. But it hasn't held up very well in areas that get abrasion on the -7A, and even now it is possible to remove the primer with MEK. So for the -10 I'm using the AKZO epoxy primer, while Dan C. decided that if he builds another one, he'll just spot prime the rib flanges and other spots where two pieces of aluminum are stuck together, and leave the rest bare. I did that on the inside of my -7A wings and then fogged them with ACF-50 to get some anti-corrosion film on the bare aluminum skins.

One thing that has made the AZKO go quickly is using a disposable cup spray "zip gun" from ACS ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/zipgun.php ). The primer smells kinda bad, and has to sit around for 30 minutes after mixing, but dries almost as fast as the rattle can primer. Very tough and bonds much better to the aluminum than the self-etching rattle can primer.

Anyway, the reason I chose to do this was that we've always lived in coastal cities near saltwater, and I had a Cessna 182 based on Kent Island in Maryland that picked up definite internal wing corrosion over the course of a few years parked close to the water's edge. JRA aircraft in Hagerstown treated the corrosion with ACF-50 and stopped it from progressing quite impressively.

But as always, your mileage may vary and priming is one of those things every builder gets a valid and usually strong opinion about.

-Dan Masys
#40448 closing wings


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