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occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

I have been in touch with Kitfox and John advises  that they have a PVc fairing kit. Has anyone used this and do you have pictures?  The original fairings from the damaged struts was a wood-like material that is  very hard and cannot be removed. I can't imagine that PVC would be as strong.  Any ideas??

  

  

  

 Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

do not  archive

   [quote][b]

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

Dave,



I have the PVC fairings on my airplane.  They are tough,  I don't worry if 

someone is helping move the airplane by grabbing the fairing covered lift 

struts.



I think the most common argument against them is that they are relatively 

heavy vs. a light weight wood.



Lowell Fitt

Cameron Park, CA

Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Warp

1998 850 hrs.

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

At 11:28 AM 5/5/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The original fairings from the damaged struts was a wood-like 

material that is very hard and cannot be removed. I can't imagine 

that PVC would be as strong.


	


I did not install mine, but I give them a bulletproof rating. They're 

certainly a lot harder than my head!

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

"Strong like bull" to quote some lame B-movie that I saw years ago. I  

installed the PVC fairings that were produced back in about 1994 or  

so, and they are tough. I covered mine with Polyfiber cloth, and  

painted with Polytone just like any fabric-covered part. I have some  

pictures.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/275+ hrs





On May 5, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Dave G. wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have been in touch with Kitfox and John advises that they have a  

 PVc fairing kit. Has anyone used this and do you have pictures? The  

 original fairings from the damaged struts was a wood-like material  

 that is very hard and cannot be removed. I can't imagine that PVC  

 would be as strong. Any ideas??



 Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

 do not archive

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List_- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 forums.matronics.com_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Strut fairing questions.

I have them on my plane, I left them alone, no paint, no glue, just snapped them on and away I went.  about 400 hrs on them, they look great.  When I removed the wood off one side I weighed the wood and then weighed the plastic, pretty much the same.

Joel

Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Bremerton, WA USA

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Strut fairing questions.

I have been considering strut fairings for my model 5 and am wondering how to make sure that they are properly aligned with the slip stream. Do you think that they are sturdy enough for use on a float plane where folks on the dock often try to help by grabbing the lift struts?



Joel Mapes

Bremerton, WA



38 hours into phase one, currently on tube gear

Way too much fun.

_________________
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

At 10:01 AM 5/6/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have been considering strut fairings for my model 5 and am 

wondering how to make sure that they are properly aligned with the 

slip stream.


	


Mine are aligned in the plane of the struts. They will be very close 

to aligned, or possibly have a few degree angle of attack.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Do you think that they are sturdy enough for use on a float plane 

where folks on the dock often try to help by grabbing the lift struts?


	


The PVC ones are definitely strong enough.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

Hi Joel,



Alignment:  Michel in Norway, and a friend of his from

France, helped me design super slick fairings for my

Fox.  They used X-Plane to do the modeling of the

struts for me.  What we found was interesting.



The fairings were stalled durning normal climb and

approach speed/AOA.  When below the stall AOA, they

could lift up to 40 lbs.  This made them speed up the

plane and lift more than their own weight too.  A

double plus.  But for steap climbs, they didn't help

so much.



We worked hard to come up with a design that didn't

stall during normal climb so that the extra lift and

reduced drag were still there.  That part gets a bit

complex.  Of course I had to learn not to overshoot

the landings again, because it worked.  And I got over

10 mph more speed from them in cruise.



For the normal strut fairings, I would suggest taking

a picture of your wing against the horizon during

cruise flight.  Blow the pic up enough so you can

measure the angle of the spreader rod between the

strut tops and horizon, and the angle of your jury

strut spreader to the horizon.  With those 2 angles,

you can align the fairings to the horizon as a zero

incidence for your fairings.



But if your spreader bar and horizontal jury bar are

nose down, put your fairings a bit nose down too.  2

degrees max nose down to the horizon.  This is

probably because your cruise AOA is a bit nose down

with the KF wing developing too much lift.  A little

nose down on the fairings will keep them from stalling

when more nose up, as in climb, and also might take a

little of that extra lift in cruise away making you

fly a tad more level.



Just my opinion.



Kurt Schrader

S-5 NSI turbo w/CAP 140 prop

Back in Florida



--- Joel <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have been considering strut fairings for my model

 5 and am wondering how to make sure that they are

 properly aligned with the slip stream. Do you think

 that they are sturdy enough for use on a float plane

 where folks on the dock often try to help by

 grabbing the lift struts?

 

 Joel Mapes

 Bremerton, WA

 

 38 hours into phase one, currently on tube gear

 Way too much fun.


	




 

Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. 

Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Strut fairing questions.

How to center the struts.  Well if you installed them the way I did (just snap them on) you don't have to worry about it, they will move to the slip stream automatically.  I did a test this morning and put down angle on the strut fairings.  By the time I hit level flight they readjusted themselves to level.  Another note if you want to glue them is to put them to the bar that goes between the front and back at the wing connections, at least I have one on my 4.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

On May 7, 2007, at 4:25 AM, kurt schrader wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   What we found was interesting.


	


I am glad it could help, Kurt. Of course, using a simulator to 

calculate real life aviation should always be taken with a grain of 

salt but apparently it was effective in your case.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox3 - Jabiru



Do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

arholland

Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 5

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Strut fairing questions.

I am looking for strut fairings for my kitfox as well.  Does Kitfox aircraft have them listed on their website somewhere?



One person in the email chain said they just snapped them on, not covering, no paint, nothing.  Where did you get the snap on fairings?

_________________
Allen Holland
Munford, TN

occom

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 404

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

I'm sure John M will answer this with the definitve answer but I think they 

now or shortly will have a similar to original wood fairing kit that will 

require glueing and covering as the originals did. I will want them sooner 

or later. The really great thing about this from my perpspective is that 

they can be cut to shorter lengths and shipped. Try that with a one piece 

plastic fairing



Dave Goddard- Mod IV 1050/582

do not archive

---

john(at)leptron.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

Dave,

I will need to get out my paperwork, but many of us did some speed checks

when we were playing with fairings. The wood kit supplied by kitfox was an

improvement of about 4.5 mph. When we went to the snap on fairings that

kitfox, started supplying our improvement over stock round tube was 8 to 9

miles better. It actually made the whole plane feel different. I used to fly

the plane full throttle down to the surface and it would slow down and land

in a hurry, now I have to think about how to slow it  down.



John Oakley



--

dave.wahlquist(at)ics.uwe
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

Does anyone have experience with removing the wood and fabric fairings?

How well are they glued on?

I assume you don't want to do any scraping or grinding on the struts.

Maybe if you are going to the snap on ones you just need to clean up

well enough to allow the new ones to slip on and not bind or scrape?



Dave Wahlquist

Model 3 582

Marshall,WI



--

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Strut fairing questions.

John, what is the difference in chord of the fairings that helped gain that extra speed ?   

What speeds do you get wide open straight and level ?



Dave 

 	  Quote: 	
		  The wood kit supplied by kitfox was an 

improvement of about 4.5 mph. When we went to the snap on fairings that 

kitfox, started supplying our improvement over stock round tube was 8 to 9 

miles better. It actually made the whole plane feel different.

_________________
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http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Strut fairing questions.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anyone have experience with removing the wood and fabric fairings? 

How well are they glued on? 	




I have not removed fairing from the struts but have removed lots of other parts glued on.  The wood fairing are attached with 3M epoxy.  It will soften with heat from a heat gun.  You can use a plastic or wood scraper to remove the residual epoxy from the struts.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

Regarding lift strut fairings...



Some of you will remember the original wood style fairings.. The install was

fairly simple and very easy to work with even after the aircraft is flying.

The PVC Fairings were introduced and while they offered a more true airfoil

shape they also added significant weight.  They are also very time consuming

to install nicely as they have a 2 ridges on each side of them that should

be sanded down.  The aluminum cuff on the end also created some challenges.

That being said we have chosen to look back and re-introduce the wood...

although a little different.  We have chosen Balsa as the medium to use for

several reasons.. believe it or not strength is one, ease of install and

sanding,  and the other is weight.    The 2 lift struts weighed in at almost

14 lbs difference from the PVC to the Balsa and the Balsa is stronger.

Speed differences between the 2 is negligible.  The new Balsa fairings

maintain the correct proportions to the diameter of the tube.  We have seen

and had reported from 8 to 14 mph difference with either style.



The Strut fairings will also include the horizontal lift strut pieces as

well for the single horizontal support tubes.



We have not introduced these officially yet as we need to develop the

installation instructions for them.. However, they are ordered and should be

in stock hopefully by months end.



Installation is pretty straight forward.  Bond, shape, seal, cover &

paint... 

Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



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pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

John,

  How close in the balsa compared to the old pine/fir ones used previously?

It looks like it might have a slightly longer chord?

Thanks, Paul

==========================

At 01:35 PM 9/13/2007, you wrote:

[quote]Regarding lift strut fairings...



Some of you will remember the original wood style fairings.. The install was

fairly simple and very easy to work with even after the aircraft is flying.

The PVC Fairings were introduced and while they offered a more true airfoil

shape they also added significant weight.  They are also very time consuming

to install nicely as they have a 2 ridges on each side of them that should

be sanded down.  The aluminum cuff on the end also created some challenges.

That being said we have chosen to look back and re-introduce the wood...

although a little different.  We have chosen Balsa as the medium to use for

several reasons.. believe it or not strength is one, ease of install and

sanding,  and the other is weight.    The 2 lift struts weighed in at almost

14 lbs difference from the PVC to the Balsa and the Balsa is stronger.

Speed differences between the 2 is negligible.  The new Balsa fairings

maintain the correct proportions to the diameter of the tube.  We have seen

and had reported from 8 to 14 mph difference with either style.



The Strut fairings will also include the horizontal lift strut pieces as

well for the single horizontal support tubes.



We have not introduced these officially yet as we need to develop the

installation instructions for them.. However, they are ordered and should be

in stock hopefully by months end.



Installation is pretty straight forward.  Bond, shape, seal, cover &

paint... 

Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



--

hflynn46531(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

In 1995 when I built my S5 I didn't use the pvc fairings. Instead I ordered balsa wood from Aircraft Spruce and used that. It was vary easy to work with and shape and vary strong and light weight. I covered them with fabric and painted them. They turned out so nice that people thought they were metal ones. They look the same today as they did when I fiinshed them.



jdmcbean <jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraft.com> wrote:  [quote]Regarding lift strut fairings...



Some of you will remember the original wood style fairings.. The install was

fairly simple and very easy to work with even after the aircraft is flying.

The PVC Fairings were introduced and while they offered a more true airfoil

shape they also added significant weight. They are also very time consuming

to install nicely as they have a 2 ridges on each side of them that should

be  sanded down. The aluminum cuff on the end also created some challenges.

That being said we have chosen to look back and re-introduce the wood...

although a little different. We have chosen Balsa as the medium to use for

several reasons.. believe it or not strength is one, ease of install and

sanding, and the other is weight. The 2 lift struts weighed in at almost

14 lbs difference from the PVC to the Balsa and the Balsa is stronger.

Speed differences between the 2 is negligible. The new Balsa fairings

maintain the correct proportions to the diameter of the tube. We have seen

and had reported from 8 to 14 mph difference with either style.



The Strut fairings will also include the horizontal lift strut pieces as

well for the single horizontal support tubes.



We have not introduced these officially yet as we need to develop the

installation instructions for them.. However, they are ordered and should be

in stock hopefully by months  end.



Installation is pretty straight forward. Bond, shape, seal, cover &

paint... 

Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



--

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: Strut fairing questions.

Paul,

	They are a longer chord... There is an aerodynamic rule of thumb for

streamline shapes and we have tried to stay close to that.



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



--

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