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Bad battery/bad experience

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wayne.e(at)grandecom.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

I thought I would pass along to you an experience  I've had with Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from  them. At the beginning of the year I 

  purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from  Tex-Air but didn't use it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery  was DOA and I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but  rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the credit and  send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the credit. Below is an  e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the  refund.

  

 I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be  their unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me.  I'm just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase your items  and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.

  

 Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug  25th.

  

 Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with  this battery I get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning  the engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In  hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the  Concorde.

   

 Wayne Edgerton N602WT 

 a little pissed off at Tex-Air 

  

 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE.    HE IS THE  ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR BATTERY.    SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO  MUCH TROUBLE.

  

 THANKS,

 DONNA



   From: Wayne Edgerton  [mailto:wayne.e(at)grandecom.net] 

Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20  AM

To: texair(at)texair.com

Subject: Return  refund

 

 To return credit manager,

  

 On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX,  see attachment. I purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I  was building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not start  it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right out of the box. So I  returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth and purchased another one,  which has worked fine. I was told at the time that I would have to pay for the  new battery and then would receive credit for the returned battery when it was  tested.

  

 After sometime I called into your FW store and  asked about the progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge  of something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay the shipping  charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This obviously irritated me and I  told the person why don't I just write this experience off to a company  with a really bad return policy, but that I would be making a posting to the RV  blog about my experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait  and lets see what can be done.

  

 I did wait and nothing happened so I called  back in and was told someone in the back had to test it and they had been  really busy. I have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress,  probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let me  explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I bought a battery  from your company that apparently was defective out of the box and now I'm  getting a complete run around on receiving back credit for it. Boy if you think  this type of customer service creates customer loyalty, you must have attended  the wrong business school.

  

 I believe I've been really patient on this but the  patience issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to  inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very soon my  intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business Bureau regarding your  business practices on this type of issue. I intend to also post this same  complaint and experience on the RV builders blog. 

  

 Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell  if I'm building a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather  that you appear to be jerking me around on a return that  should have been an exchange at the time of the return. I was told  that it's the battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that  you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are unable to  support it. If you went to a department store and bought an item and then  because it was defective took it back, would you accept the  explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier oks it?  I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have to take  responsibility with the customer for that product and you  deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my  business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me, it was  actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their product they were  gone.

  

 Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just  letting you know in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised  when it occurs. 

  

 Wayne Edgerton



   [quote][b]

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

Wayne,

 I'm using two Odyssey 680PC's and they are working great.  They are going on two years of use.  Are you going to LOE?

  

 Mark

 RV-10/N410MR



<html><div></div></html>

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: wayne.e(at)grandecom.net

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10-List: Bad battery/bad experience

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:18:45 -0500



     I thought I would pass along to you an experience I've had with Tex-Air Parts in Fort Worth on a Concorde battery I purchased from them. At the beginning of the year I 

 purchase a Concorde RG25CX for my plane from Tex-Air but didn't use it until May when I went to start the plane. The battery was DOA and I returned it for exchange. They wouldn't exchange it outright but rather I had to buy a new one and they said they would process the credit and send it to me. As of today I still haven't received the credit. Below is an e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th and I'm still waiting for the refund.

  

 I guess what's irritating me is what appears to be their unwillingness to refund my money for a bad battery they sold me. I'm just posting this to give others heads up on where you purchase your items and be sure they will stand behind what they sell.

  

 Here is the e-mail I sent them on Aug 25th.

  

 Also I've noticed that when starting the plane with this battery I get an initial hesitation, like it's having difficulty turning the engine over but when I try the second time it turns over fine. In hindsight I might look at the Odyssey PC925 rather than the Concorde.

   

 Wayne Edgerton N602WT 

 a little pissed off at Tex-Air 

  

 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  I WILL FWD YOUR EMAIL TO GENE.    HE IS THE ONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT YOUR BATTERY.    SORRY YOU ARE HAVING SO MUCH TROUBLE.

  

 THANKS,

 DONNA



   From: Wayne Edgerton [mailto:wayne.e(at)grandecom.net] 

Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:20 AM

To: texair(at)texair.com

Subject: Return refund

 

 To return credit manager,

  

 On 5/18/07 I returned a Concorde battery RG25CX, see attachment. I purchased the battery from your company for the RV10 that I was building. When I was ready to start my engine on the RV10 it would not start it. The battery was obviously defective somehow right out of the box. So I returned the battery to your store in Fort Worth and purchased another one, which has worked fine. I was told at the time that I would have to pay for the new battery and then would receive credit for the returned battery when it was tested.

  

 After sometime I called into your FW store and asked about the progress of the credit. I was told that there would be a charge of something like $90 to test the battery and I think I had to pay the shipping charge back to the supplier to have it tested. This obviously irritated me and I told the person why don't I just write this experience off to a company with a really bad return policy, but that I would be making a posting to the RV blog about my experience with the battery and your company. I was told to wait and lets see what can be done.

  

 I did wait and nothing happened so I called back in and was told someone in the back had to test it and they had been really busy. I have called in on multiple occasion inquiring on the progress, probably 5 or 6 times, and have been told we're getting close. Let me explain that the money for me is not the issue. The issue is I bought a battery from your company that apparently was defective out of the box and now I'm getting a complete run around on receiving back credit for it. Boy if you think this type of customer service creates customer loyalty, you must have attended the wrong business school.

  

 I believe I've been really patient on this but the patience issue has just about run it's coarse. I thought it only fair to inform you that if something isn't forthcoming on this issue very soon my intentions are to write a letter to the Better Business Bureau regarding your business practices on this type of issue. I intend to also post this same complaint and experience on the RV builders blog. 

  

 Again trust me this is not about the monies, hell if I'm building a $250,000 airplane this is small potatoes, but rather that you appear to be jerking me around on a return that should have been an exchange at the time of the return. I was told that it's the battery company that is the problem. Then I would suggest that you drop that line of product from your inventory if you are unable to support it. If you went to a department store and bought an item and then because it was defective took it back, would you accept the explanation that I really can't give you credit until the supplier oks it? I think not. If you take on a product and sell it you have to take responsibility with the customer for that product and you deal with the supplier or at least that's how I always ran my business. I never had a vendor that had that much control over me, it was actually the opposite. If they didn't want to support their product they were gone.

  

 Understand this is not a threat but rather I'm just letting you know in advance what my intentions are so you are not surprised when it occurs. 

  

 Wayne Edgerton



 	  Quote: 	
		  



get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

p://forums.matronics.com



	
	
Make your little one a shining star! Shine on!  [quote][b]

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs  to be advised. This will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air  company and see that people have complained than anything else.

  

 On a different perspective and this is related to  tools. I had a a countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage  and I wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took the  e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so he could  track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement countersinks  (different source). There are great support teams out there and I'm sure using  this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind us in the right direction.  Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource others other companies.

 Pascal

  

 ---

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors.  If every company could replicate their customer service the world would be in harmony. 

 You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the community they sell to.  Even though Stein gives me crap about not wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he still is a great supplier. 

 Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience like working with Stein and Abby.  

 www.steinair.com

 http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/

 

Scott Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com 



 ---

millstees(at)ameritech.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

I would like to second what Scott said about Flightline  Interiors.  I received the seats for my RV-10, and they had made a mistake  on the embroidery.  My N number is N750SM, and they sewed N7505M.  I  called Abbey, and she had the corrected seats back to me inside of a week...no  argument.  I would pay more for that kind of customer service, but, no  need, her prices are very competitive.

  

  

Steve Mills N750SM (reserved)

RV-10 40486 Slow-build   Eggenfellner E-6T

Naperville, Illinois

Finishing kit

Do Not  Archive

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott  Schmidt

Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 10:15 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Bad battery/bad  experience

 

  

 The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline  Interiors.  If every company could replicate their customer  service the world would be in harmony. 

 You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the  community they sell to.  Even though Stein gives me crap about not wearing  his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he still is a great  supplier. 

 Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience  like working with Stein and Abby.  

 www.steinair.com

 http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/

 

Scott  Schmidt

scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com  



 -----  Original Message ----

From: pascal <rv10builder(at)verizon.net>

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 7:35:35  AM

Subject: Re: Bad battery/bad experience



   Looks like you were more patient than I. BBB needs  to be advised. This will speak louder for others who look at the Tex-Air  company and see that people have complained than anything else.

  

 On a different perspective and this is related to  tools. I had a a countersink that broke shortly after using it for the empennage  and I wrote Brown tools asking if it was normal. Michael Brown himself took the  e-mail, expressed concern, asked for a picture with the writing so he could  track the source, than immediately shipped out 2 replacement countersinks  (different source). There are great support teams out there and I'm sure using  this forum and Tim's site we can steer those behind us in the right direction.  Tim has mentioned SteinAir as a resource others other companies.

 Pascal

  

 ---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

Those SteinAir T-Shirts make great grease rags when lubing bearings,

and doing oil changes.   (just had to take that dig at Stein

in hopes that he's monitoring the list today)



Actually, if you want a bit of comment to read on dealing with

dealers, some of it related to Stein, see the off-list reply

below that I sent to another builder inquiring about where

to buy servos.  It has some thinking points anyway.



-------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I think you're better calling most any vendor with

the pricing questions.  It gives them time to get to know you

and what you may need for the future, and help you decide what

fits you best.  Many dealers don't publish their bottom price

on the web, but they'll give them to you as you're building

your avionics packages.  Also, Stark, Alex, and SteinAir

have all proven themselves to be great dealers to work

through.  Stein especially has proven with that D2AV debacle

that he won't let any customers down.  In that particular

case, the people that went through dealers fared better

than those who bought direct.  One thing you'll find out

as you buy avionics...dealer relationships are important

to build.  There needs to be an understanding of where you

want to go, and they can help you get there in the best

way for you.  All of these businesses are very very small in

perspective to the businesses you buy other goods from.

Your business means a lot to them, and they will be trying

hard to satisfy your needs properly.  Right now, as you

start buying your AP servos, it's a good time to keep in

mind that you're starting a relationship. Good service

is a two-way street too.  When you buy from a dealer,

they'll be very happy to support you.  Buy some things

from the mass sellers, like Aircraft Spruce (not that

they're bad), and then just see how good the support is

when you have problems of a technical nature.  It doesn't

make a dealer happy when you buy something a discount

Joe's, but then you call them because you can't get it

to work.  But, buy that same item from them, and they'll

bend over backwards to make sure you get it working

properly. The dollars you throw at them will come back

to you in the form of support, and considering that you're

not going to be just hauling your plane to the local

avionics guy and handing him a few hundred bucks for

troubleshooting all these little things, you're saving

a fortune by having a good relationship with your

dealer.



As far as Stein goes, I didn't know him from Adam when

I was first buying.  I got my servos direct, because I

couldn't imagine that he'd sell them cheaper. And, when

I started looking at avionics, I resisted actually pretty

hard giving him business, because I thought that going

to a dealer was just going to cost me more money than

buying direct or going to ACS. It's actually funny that

I can remember being very cautious talking to him at

first.  Turns out he's been invaluable as a dealer, and

turned into a good friend.  So yeah, I'm biased for sure,

but the man earned it from me.  I would have never

been so happy with my avionics had I gone down my

original path, and not had his guidance along the way.



So yep, call any of the dealers and get to know them,

and then give them your request for quote.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Scott Schmidt wrote:

[quote] The best in this business are Stein Air and Flightline Interiors.  If 

 every company could replicate their customer service the world would be 

 in harmony.

 You can tell when a supplier loves their job, their product, and the 

 community they sell to.  Even though Stein gives me crap about not 

 wearing his t-shirts during prime photo opportunities at Oshkosh, he 

 still is a great supplier.

 Van's does a good job too but you really get a personal experience 

 like working with Stein and Abby.  

 www.steinair.com <http://www.steinair.com>

 http://www.flightlineinteriors.com/

  

 Scott Schmidt

 scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com

 

 

 ---

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

The new color, brown, especially works well when wiping up spilled

resin!



Actually, my wife gets all of my vendor shirts, because they always

order small guy sizes and those of us that are Horizontally challenged

do not fit in those girly man sizes....

Dan

N289DT RV10E 



--

bhughes(at)qnsi.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

You mean you are not an FAA standard pilot? How is the Egg doing? Any

data you can share? 



Bobby

40116 

Do not archive 

--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

Okay Dan, It's been weeks and weeks since OSH '07 and almost months.

Your flyoff hours were done in record time as I remember.  Now we are

all interested In the service ceiling, cruise at 8,500 MSL, climb rate

and fuel consumption numbers.  Just how is it going or was there a

problem?  This is not like you.



John Cox



--

n8vim(at)arrl.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

>Horizontally challenged

 

 Oh no... Don't use a politically correct term containing a word (challenged) that might make someone feel bad......  try this instead:

 

 Gravitationally enhanced!  (Hey honey.... I'm enhanced!) 

 

 -Jim 40384

 

 do not archive

 

 Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: [quote]   [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> (LloydDR(at)wernerco.com)  The new color, brown, especially works well when wiping up spilled resin!  Actually, my wife gets all of my vendor shirts, because they always order small guy sizes and those of us that are Horizontally challenged do not fit in those girly man sizes.... Dan N289DT RV10E   --

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:47 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

I would not have had to build the 10 if I was a standard pilot!! I am

working on getting to that, but with the extra heat I am generating from

the exercise global warming is accelerating!

For the Egg update read my reply to John Cox's message that way I am not

clogging the BW with repeats, and getting flamed by the list police!

Dan

N289DT RV10E Flying and cooling better than expected! 



--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Bad battery/bad experience

John 

I appreciate everyone hanging in there for info on the continued

modifications we are making to the RV10E. As for the fly off hours, I

would remind you of what our Grandmothers taught us, many hands make

light work. We had 5 pilots, a well written test plan, a better designed

engine, one squawk, and allot of Diet Coke and less than 4 days to

accomplish the task to meet our goal of flying to Osh Kosh. The only

mechanical, safety of flight squawk I had to deal with over the second

night was a loose break fitting, that was not readily apparent until we

had to due the several full power hold backs for prop balancing. This

quickly allowed us to see red fluid dripping from the bottom of the

plane, down a gear leg. What it ended up being was a loose NPT fitting

on the parking brake for the right side. Once this was tightened up then

that solved all mechanical stuff. We had and still have a couple of

software config issues, but they are secondary and I will work them out

as we go.



If you go to the Eggenfellner site and click on News you will see what

we have been up to, no jokes about me sweaty and covered in carbon fiber

(at)1am okay? We have designed a new carbon fiber gull wing cowl for the

Egg install. During initial testing we were getting okay cooling, but

like the Lycomings when the outside temp gets high we would step climb.

Jan knew he could overcome this with the proper design and a cowl flap.

With allot of research and trials Jan settled on the current design and

he did a mock up then took a plug from it and made the first production

cowl and flap. Flight testing in 100 degree heat and 85-90% humidity

revealed that we could climb full throttle to 8500 feet without having

to level off for a cool down. The cowl flap is manually controlled right

now, but it will be interfaced into the computer and will automatically

deploy and retract at certain temperatures when it is finalized.

 

As you know we had been testing my 10 normally aspirated, because we did

not want to put additional heat load until we were sure the cooling

system was good to go. Our preliminary "Non-verified or non-scientific"

numbers on the normally aspirated engine was 130 Knots at 10.5k with

6gph fuel flow, this was throttled back at around 1900 on the prop. For

the next several trips after that we flew at 2400 at 4k and were seeing

150 or so at 11gph. These are consistent numbers, with wheel pants but

without gear leg/ intersection fairings. If the predictions are right,

once we add the fairings, and paint to make it drag less, we should see

around 160 or slightly less, pretty good for normal aspiration and 200HP



Gary has finished the design of the new constant speed controller and we

have tested that and all is working well with it. Jan had to go out of

town for a bit and then he got back last Monday and they were doing the

plug for a Sportsman cowl. 



Now that the cooling system/ cowl mods are working so well we are able

to move forward with the Turbo install. This was accomplished late last

week and over the weekend, with flight testing to start ASAP. I will be

back down in Florida later this week to see what the Turbo and higher

altitude flying will do for the performance numbers. My intentions are

to fly from Daytona to Boston and then over to Pittsburgh. Then over the

next week or so I will install the gear leg and intersection fairings,

and move the batteries. During the W&B it was determined we are

significantly lighter on the nose wheel than a Lycoming, and our overall

gross weight is lighter. Jan had planned for this, but I did not want to

believe it and I installed the dual batteries in the typical location. I

will need to move them forward of the Firewall, which will give me a net

54 pound swing. The dual batteries, tray, and contactors weigh 27

pounds, so take that weight away back aft and move it forward of the

spar, I get the shift I want. That is not to say we were out back aft,

but with no fuel, 4 adults and full luggage it was too close, and this

is an easy fix.



As of right now I could not be happier, the plane is performing as

expected with an alternative engine that is under development. We have

proven that even a normally aspirated 200hp engine will fly the RV10,

give great fuel burn rates and be very affordable, and still give

respectable performance. A brand new FWF package for under $25k, and the

ability to install it and be ready to run in under 10 hours is almost to

good to be true but that is what it my install has proven. Now hopefully

the turbo will give us the final push at altitude, but only time and

testing will tell!  

 

Hopefully everyone is now up to date and as soon as I get the turbo

numbers, and up to Tim's place we can run both RV's next to each other

and give everyone a good impressions report for people to make their own

decisions on.

If anyone has any questions feel free to contact me and I would be happy

to spend time talking.

Dan



N289DT RV10E         



--

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