 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: Jabiru OP sensor replacement |
 |
|
In a message dated 9/29/2007 2:59:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes:
| Quote: | If memory serves, you were offered a replacement also...through the dealer;
which is how warrantees are handled.
If I have you confused with someone else, please let me apologize in advance. |
And then Nick said:
"I have found jabiru to be very excellent in their warrenty claims. No hassles or
problems here getting any items taken care of. I beleive maybe you are going
about your claim in the wrong fashion."
Hi Doug and Nick
Nope Doug, you've got me confused with somebody else. And, Nick, I've handled my warranty situation EXACTLY as instructed by the dealer from whom I purchased my engine. The failure to comply with the warranty apparently is on the factory end, not this end or the dealer's end, or so I'm told, anyway.
I was not offered a warranty replacement OP sensor directly, despite my insistence that it should be covered under the warranty. I was told that I had to purchase the replacement VDO sensor. I was instructed to return the old sensor to the dealer and the old sensor would be sent back to Jabiru and a credit would be issued from the factory and forwarded to me. In fact, I just reviewed the e-mail correspondences between myself and the dealer regarding this issue that were sent a year ago so that I would accurately repeat what happened here for your review. So, this is an accurate representation of what occurred.
My original OP sensor was sent back to the dealer close to a over a year and a half ago, but no warranty credit was ever issued by Jabiru. I did indeed purchase the replacement VDO OP sensor I installed at about 30 hours and I was told at the time it would indeed be covered under the factory warranty, but it might take a while for the factory to make good on it. To date, that warranty replacement has not happened. Ditto the two replacement coils I've purchased that, IMO, should have also been covered by warranty since one was failed at first start up and the other failed at about 30 hours.
I would think that a year and a half is more than ample time to comply with a warranty issue, don't you?
Both replacement coils I received were considerably different from what came on my engine. I suspect that the original coils were probably robbed off a 2200, since they closely resemble what I've seen installed on the 2200. I believe the original coils were simply too small and could not stand the current flow needed to supply fire to 6 plugs instead of 4. I hold an MSEE from Georgia Tech and as such I'm pretty familiar with all things electrical and how they work. Coil sizing is a pretty simple affair in the grand scheme of things and it doesn't take my level of education to realize what the problem was with the original coils, especially since they both failed on the secondary side. The replacement coils, purchased from two different Jab dealers, were identical to each other and considerably larger than the originals. The two replacment coils have a much different orientation than the originals. This seems to indicate that either Jabiru knew they had a problem with the smaller coils and switched to the larger ones after my engine was shipped, or the original coils sent on the engine were not the correct size. The new and old coils were probably from the same vendor, though. Interestingly, one of the coils I received from a dealer, and not the dealer I bought my engine from, was used, but I was charged full retail as if it were new. The used coil worked, but this is as ethically questionable as Jabiru's failure to honor their warranty. I took a series of pictures of both the original coils and the replacement coils, side by side, to illustrate the difference between the two and sent the pictures via e-mail to my dealer on the same day I returned the coils for replacement. That didn't help one iota.
FWIW, I'm in no way slamming the dealer where I purchased my engine. His support outside these issues has been excellent. From what I have been told by the dealer from whom I purchased my engine, the problem with the warranty replacement on both the coils and the OP sensor is with the factory, not the dealer. Apparently, Jabiru leaves warranty issues to the dealer's to be handled "out of pocket". My dealer offered me a $200 credit out of his pocket. Nice gesture, but that hardly covers half of what I spent on 2 coils and an OP sensor, plus shipping. I also don't think it's right that the dealer should have to pay for a warranty replacement out of his pocket for a factory problem. Jabiru might well think this is an acceptable business practice, but, it is not what their warranty states. Having been a dealer for various ultralight manufacturers over the years, and a Rotax dealer, too, I view this practice as a wee bit less than ethical.
The real question is what would Jabiru do if this were a really serious warranty issue requiring expensive replacement parts like a head or a crankshaft? I think we've all seen the answer to that question vividly illustrated here. If they won't replace something as rudimentary as a coil or an OP sensor under warranty, they sure as hell aren't going to replace a crank if it fails in the warranty period.
I really, really like the 3300, especially when compared to the Rotax 912s. The Jabiru factory support, however, leaves a lot to be desired, even when you compare them to Rotax factory support, which also leaves a lot to be desired. FYI, I also own an AMT 200S Super Ximango that has a certified 912S installed and I do direct comparisons all the time between the two. The 3300 is a superior engine to the 912s in a lot of respects, but the way these warranty issues have been handled, or not handled, will certainly affect any decision I might make in the future in terms of purchasing another engine from Jabiru for a future project should the need arise. I certainly bring it up as a topic of discussion anytime anybody asks me what I think about Jabiru engines, too. I spent $15,000+ on this engine and I expected, at the very least, basic support from the factory, but that clearly ain't gonna happen. Based on the correspondence I've received from other Jab owners, I'm not alone in this expectation or in the end result of warranty claims.
The cost of the coils and the OP sensor certainly aren't going to break me and this issue really isn't about money at this point. It's about ethical business practice. All I'm saying is don't expect Jabiru to honor their warranty because, at least in my case, they've refused to honor the most basic and least expensive warranty claim they are likley to see with a 3300. My experience has been that they choose to not honor their warranty, despite how squeaky the wheel gets, but rather ignore their customer and leave it to the dealer to handle as he sees fit. If ya'll have had good luck dealing with them I'm happy for you. I have not had any success gettting them to honor their warranty despite doing exactly as I was instructed. (and I know how to squeak pretty loud if I'm provoked)
In other words, plainly stated, let the buyer beware. That Jabiru factory warranty you received with your engine isn't what you think it is and I've got overwhelming proof that Jabiru does not honor their warranty on even the most basic issues, like coils and OP sensors.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
info(at)usjabiru.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: Jabiru OP sensor replacement |
|
|
This business about Jabiru not covering warranty is not what Jabiru USA has experienced. Over the last seven years we’ve sold about 1000 engines and have presented Jabiru with several warranty issues for both OP senders and Ignition coils. Those claims have always been honored without question.
Do you still have your old coils or OP sender? If so send them to me and I’ll get the warranty replacements for you.
As for coils being different – there is no difference in the coils on any of the Jabiru engines including the 4, 6, or 8 cylinder. The only difference is that in years past the length of the lead was different on the 4 vs the 6 but for the last while the lengths have been the same. There is no way yours could have come from a 2200 as the leads would have been too short to work on the 3300. The only way your coils could have been different is if you had one of the engines that were produced in 2003 that had the “Leading GX” coils that Jabiru found to be not up to the task and offered a replacement for back in 2003 & 2004.
If you are referring to the ignition coil that Jabiru USA sent you as used – it was taken off a brand new engine as we didn’t have a coils in stock at the time so in effect it was used but only for the short break in run at the Jabiru factory. We did not consider it a “used” unit and were happy to open up an engine box and take it off a new engine rather than keep you waiting for our stock to arrive. In any case – if you still have your old coils send them to me and I’ll get a warranty replacement in short order.
Support for Jabiru engines comes directly from the dealer who by contract is required to handle these situations. Jabiru USA would be happy to handle it for you.
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:48 AM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Jabiru OP sensor replacement
In a message dated 9/29/2007 2:59:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com writes:
| Quote: |
[i]If memory serves, you were offered a replacement also...through the dealer; [/i]
[i][i]which is how warrantees are handled.[/i]
[i]If I have you confused with someone else, please let me apologize in advance[/i][/i]. |
And then Nick said:
[i]"I have found jabiru to be very excellent in their warrenty claims. No hassles or[/i]
[i][i]problems here getting any items taken care of. I beleive maybe you are going[/i]
[i]about your claim in the wrong fashion."[/i][/i]
Hi Doug and Nick
Nope Doug, you've got me confused with somebody else. And, Nick, I've handled my warranty situation [i]EXACTLY[/i] as instructed by the dealer from whom I purchased my engine. The failure to comply with the warranty apparently is on the factory end, not this end or the dealer's end, or so I'm told, anyway.
I [i]was not[/i][i] [/i] offered a warranty replacement OP sensor directly, despite my insistence that it should be covered under the warranty. I was told that I had to [i]purchase[/i] the replacement VDO sensor. I was instructed to[i] return[/i] the old sensor to the dealer and the old sensor would be sent back to Jabiru and a [i]credit[/i] would be issued from the factory and forwarded to me. In fact, I just reviewed the e-mail correspondences between myself and the dealer regarding this issue that were sent a year ago so that I would accurately repeat what happened here for your review. So, this is an accurate representation of what occurred.
My original OP sensor was sent back to the dealer close to a over a year and a half ago, but no warranty credit was ever issued by Jabiru. I did indeed [i]purchase[/i][i] [/i]the replacement VDO OP sensor I installed at about 30 hours and I was told at the time it would indeed be covered under the factory warranty, but it might take a while for the factory to make good on it. To date, that warranty replacement has not happened. Ditto the two replacement coils I've [i]purchased[/i] that, IMO, should have also been covered by warranty since one was failed at first start up and the other failed at about 30 hours.
I would think that a year and a half is more than ample time to comply with a warranty issue, don't you?
Both replacement coils I received were considerably different from what came on my engine. I suspect that the original coils were probably robbed off a 2200, since they closely resemble what I've seen installed on the 2200. I believe the original coils were simply too small and could not stand the current flow needed to supply fire to 6 plugs instead of 4. I hold an MSEE from Georgia Tech and as such I'm pretty familiar with all things electrical and how they work. Coil sizing is a pretty simple affair in the grand scheme of things and it doesn't take my level of education to realize what the problem was with the original coils, especially since they both failed on the secondary side. The replacement coils, purchased from two different Jab dealers, were identical to each other and considerably larger than the originals. The two replacment coils have a much different orientation than the originals. This seems to indicate that either Jabiru knew they had a problem with the smaller coils and switched to the larger ones after my engine was shipped, or the original coils sent on the engine were not the correct size. The new and old coils were probably from the same vendor, though. Interestingly, one of the coils I received from a dealer, and not the dealer I bought my engine from, was used, but I was charged full retail as if it were new. The used coil worked, but this is as ethically questionable as Jabiru's failure to honor their warranty. I took a series of pictures of both the original coils and the replacement coils, side by side, to illustrate the difference between the two and sent the pictures via e-mail to my dealer on the same day I returned the coils for replacement. That didn't help one iota.
FWIW, I'm in no way slamming the dealer where I purchased my engine. His support outside these issues has been excellent. From what I have been told by the dealer from whom I purchased my engine, the problem with the warranty replacement on both the coils and the OP sensor is with the factory, not the dealer. Apparently, Jabiru leaves warranty issues to the dealer's to be handled "out of pocket". My dealer offered me a $200 credit out of his pocket. Nice gesture, but that hardly covers half of what I spent on 2 coils and an OP sensor, plus shipping. I also don't think it's right that the dealer should have to pay for a warranty replacement out of his pocket for a factory problem. Jabiru might well think this is an acceptable business practice, but, it is not what their warranty states. Having been a dealer for various ultralight manufacturers over the years, and a Rotax dealer, too, I view this practice as a wee bit less than ethical.
The real question is what would Jabiru do if this were a really serious warranty issue requiring expensive replacement parts like a head or a crankshaft? I think we've all seen the answer to that question vividly illustrated here. If they won't replace something as rudimentary as a coil or an OP sensor under warranty, they sure as hell aren't going to replace a crank if it fails in the warranty period.
I really, really like the 3300, especially when compared to the Rotax 912s. The Jabiru factory support, however, leaves a lot to be desired, even when you compare them to Rotax factory support, which also leaves a lot to be desired. FYI, I also own an AMT 200S Super Ximango that has a certified 912S installed and I do direct comparisons all the time between the two. The 3300 is a superior engine to the 912s in a lot of respects, but the way these warranty issues have been handled, or not handled, will certainly affect any decision I might make in the future in terms of purchasing another engine from Jabiru for a future project should the need arise. I certainly bring it up as a topic of discussion anytime anybody asks me what I think about Jabiru engines, too. I spent $15,000+ on this engine and I expected, at the very least, basic support from the factory, but that clearly ain't gonna happen. Based on the correspondence I've received from other Jab owners, I'm not alone in this expectation or in the end result of warranty claims.
The cost of the coils and the OP sensor certainly aren't going to break me and this issue really isn't about money at this point. It's about ethical business practice. All I'm saying is don't expect Jabiru to honor their warranty because, at least in my case, they've refused to honor the most basic and least expensive warranty claim they are likley to see with a 3300. My experience has been that they choose to not honor their warranty, despite how squeaky the wheel gets, but rather ignore their customer and leave it to the dealer to handle as he sees fit. If ya'll have had good luck dealing with them I'm happy for you. I have not had any success gettting them to honor their warranty despite doing exactly as I was instructed. (and I know how to squeak pretty loud if I'm provoked)
In other words, plainly stated, let the buyer beware. That Jabiru factory warranty you received with your engine isn't what you think it is and I've got overwhelming proof that Jabiru does not honor their warranty on even the most basic issues, like coils and OP sensors.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
01234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
