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EMag wrong ???

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fstringham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 87

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:32 am Post subject: EMag wrong ???

Bob and others



I believe I asked the wrong question in yesterdays post.



I have wired my aircraft (rv7A) according to the scheme Z13-8. I sure hate 

to rewire .....so after meeting with the good folks from E-mag is the Z13-8 

no longer viable or am I still OK to go with it!



What I should have asked is:

1. Who out there is using Z13-8 or Z33 with Emag products and have either 

had good luck with no problems to the mags or tragedy?

2. If Tragedy to the mags can the problem be traced to the wiring scheme of 

Z13-8?

3. Has there been anyone with any wiring scheme....Emag suggested or 

otherwise that has a mag problem and can definitly say it was because of the 

wiring (loose wire or poor connections excluded)



I believe that there may be a precieved problem with how these mags are 

wired that may or may not becausing problems with the mags where in fact 

actual use may not bare this out.



Thanks for your imput from those of you with expience in the field.



Frank (at) SGU   RV7A    Wiring Done.....maybe



_________________________________________________________________

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nuckolls.bob(at)cox.net
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: EMag wrong ???

At 07:31 AM 10/25/2007 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<fstringham(at)hotmail.com>



Bob and others



I believe I asked the wrong question in yesterdays post.



I have wired my aircraft (rv7A) according to the scheme Z13-8. I sure hate 

to rewire .....so after meeting with the good folks from E-mag is the 

Z13-8 no longer viable or am I still OK to go with it!


	


  There's nothing wrong with it . . . for P-Mags.

  Obviously, you don't want to "preflight" the

  power supply to an E-Mag, you KNOW that the

  device won't run with power removed.

 	  Quote: 	
		  What I should have asked is:

1. Who out there is using Z13-8 or Z33 with Emag products and have either 

had good luck with no problems to the mags or tragedy?


	


    No. . .



 	  Quote: 	
		  2. If Tragedy to the mags can the problem be traced to the wiring scheme 

of Z13-8?


	




    No . . .



 	  Quote: 	
		  3. Has there been anyone with any wiring scheme....Emag suggested or 

otherwise that has a mag problem and can definitly say it was because of 

the wiring (loose wire or poor connections excluded)


	


    No . . .

 	  Quote: 	
		  I believe that there may be a precieved problem with how these mags are 

wired that may or may not becausing problems with the mags where in fact 

actual use may not bare this out.



Thanks for your imput from those of you with expience in the field.


	


   While visiting Emagair two weeks ago, we had some

   discussions about design goals and risks. I was

   also made privy to some of changes to their design

   goals that will make the P-mag replacement of magnetos

   still more transparent to the owner/operator.



   I have been and continue to be skeptical of the

   rumors circulating the 'Net concerning dual failure

   of Emagair products resulting in a forced landing.

   None of these stories were accompanied with a detailed

   failure mode effects analysis of events leading up

   to the unintentional arrival with the earth.



   Z-13/8 is going to be revised to suggest that

   P-mags be permanently powered from the E-bus

   and that operational control of the P-mag be

   accomplished with the simple, single pole

   switch used for magnetos. This architecture

   will still allow for the occasional verification

   of P-mag self powered operations because it's

   a simple matter to power the electrical system

   down during ground ops for the purpose of

   conducting tests. Further, drain on the E-Bus

   during battery-only ops will be eliminated

   because future plans for P-mags call for

   switching to internal power full time once

   the engine is started.



   But as a day-to-day operational concern for

   preflight and operation of the aircraft, the

   wiring in Z-13/8 goes to the design goals

   stated for pre-flight testing of internal

   P-mag power and presents no special concerns

   for abnormal behavior of or damage to the

   ignition system.



   If you're already wired per Z-13/8, there

   is no imperative for revising it as long

   as you personally embrace the design goals

   that drove the architecture. In the revised

   drawing, we will suggest that internal power

   supplies for the P-mag are so robust and

   reliable that likelihood of pre-flight

   testing revealing a deficiency is too small

   be concerned with on a flight-by-flight basis.



   Bob . . .

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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: EMag wrong ???

Oh really?



A dual failure maybe not..But failures, almost certainly.



My engine temps suddenly went through the roof to the degree that it was

likely an engine teardown was in order. 

Every potential cause was eliminated which put it down to the timing

going beserk. 



Yes I was one of those but fourtunatly made it to the airport...It

happened on two separate occasions, once in IMC.



In fact Emagair themselves will tell you that they had a problem with

the units resetting their own timing. So while it was probably not a

dual failure the fact that the effective timing comes from the first one

to fire then unless that mag is shutdown the consequential detonation

can bring the airplane down....it did once (reported on Vans airforce

website) and I don't think I was dreaming at the time either...More like

a nightmare!



Now several improvments have been made since and no further problems

have been encountered. It is also fair to say that in both of the near

forced landings (one actual and mine was a near miss) IF the pilot had

been savvy enough to shut down one of the Emags we could have probably

found which mag it was and probably saved what must have been

considerable stress on our brand new engines. But alas we didn't....So

we take some of the blame there.



So while there is no concrete proof the evidence is highly compelling

that these units used to loose their timing with almost disasterous

results (to our pocket books if not to our lives).



Having said that. The units have performed very well..I have had a lot

of problems (more than most according to Brad). The folks at Emagair

have however worked very hard to rectify issues in a timely manner and I

would say I have at least 150 hours of fault free flying behind them

since.



Yes I do believe in E/Pmags now but they have most certainly not got a

blemish free track record. Lets hope those days are firmly behind us.



Frank

RV7a 225 hours



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