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Negative Battery Cable Connection
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Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



We had certain mission avionics that were driving us to 24 volts. Most

avionics these days, however, will run at either 12 or 24. You can get

power converters to go either way, but those are generally cheaper to go

from 24 to 12 then the other way around.

It was a pain in the rear to try and hunt down good 24 volt contactors,

especially for the starter contactor. Van's only sells 12 volt models.

But the one we did eventually get is wicked cool.

Plus it's fun to be different!

TDT

40025

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Hmm...you sure got that one down... <all in good fun>

dO nOT aRCHIVe

Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

[quote]

Plus it's fun to be different!

rick.conti(at)boeing.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Before I answer, why 2 batteries? I bought one 24 volt battery.

Gregg's (of Blue Mountain Avionics fame) document Wiring for Smart

people makes a good case for 24 volts and he convinced me. My oil

pressure gauge is part of my EFIS, therefore the EFIS must be up and

running when I start the engine. There is too much draw for a 12 volt

system when the starter is cranking and could very likely cause the EFIS

to shut off or reboot. I need to see oil pressure immediately. This is

also true for other avionics that are on when cranking the engine.

While we're on the subject, I installed a flush mounted door in the rear

bulkhead adjacent to the baggage door. Behind the door is the external

power plug connected to a solenoid with a diode. The diode and solenoid

prevent voltage from getting to the battery if the cables are connected

incorrectly.

Thank You

Rick Conti

office: 703-414-6141

cell: 571-215-6134

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Odyssey doesn't make a 24 volt battery that I know of and that's what we

wanted to use. Plus one can do a scheme like replace one of the

batteries every year (or two), to maintain a rotating constantly "new"

battery. (I think that idea came from Aero-Electric.)

Good point on the engine info display. Depends somewhat on your EFIS

and it's tolerance for voltage drops, too.

Got any pictures of your external power arrangement? Sounds nice.

TDT

40025

rick.conti(at)boeing.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



I'll take a few pictures tonight and post them on Jeremy's web site.

www.jharris.net

Go to aviation then RV-10.

Jeremy is helping with my 10 and to date has done all of the work on the

panel.

Pictures to be taken: External power receptacle set up

			 Power board location on panel

		 	 Tray in tail for servos and ELT

Anyone interested in the defrost system?

Is Odyssey an especially good battery?

Thank You

Rick Conti

office: 703-414-6141

cell: 571-215-6134

LarryRosen(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Tim

Where up front are you mounting the batteries? What type of battery?

Larry Rosen

Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   YES!! At least one other person using 24 volts! Hooray for us!

Like others, we have two Odyssey batteries, but they are wired in

series . . .

(Plus two little ones up front that are also in series . . .)

TDT

40025

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Conti, Rick

*Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:45 AM

*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

*Subject:* RE: Negative Battery Cable Connection

The board is mounted on a wood base w/stand-offs on the right side of

the panel. Sorry, no photos. I am using a 24v system. The board is the

newer version.

If you order CH Products control grips, you will NOT need the model

with the relays in the control grip. The relays are available on the

power board.

*/Thank You/*

*/Rick Conti/*

*/o/**/ffice: 703-414-6141/*

*/ cell: 571-215-6134/*

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* John Cleary [mailto:johncleary(at)mangertonnsw.com]

*Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:27 AM

*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

*Subject:* RE: Negative Battery Cable Connection

Rick,

I am interested in using this board also. Where did you decide to

mount it? Do you have any photos? Are you able to share your wiring

diagram? What voltage system did you go for?

Thank you,

John Cleary

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Conti, Rick

*Sent:* Saturday, 7 January 2006 2:09 AM

*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

*Subject:* RE: Negative Battery Cable Connection

I decided not to use the airframe as a return. Since all parts are

primed and the riveted “connection” is a painted surface to an

unpainted surface, electrically, it’s not a good connection. I bought

the power board from Blue Mountain and both battery cables run forward

to the board.

*/Thank You/*

*/Rick Conti/*

*/o/**/ffice: 703-414-6141/*

*/ cell: 571-215-6134/*

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* Mike Kraus [mailto:n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net]

*Sent:* Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:41 PM

*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

*Subject:* Negative Battery Cable Connection

Where is everyone connecting the negative battery cable on the -10? I

thought about running it up to one of the bolts that bolt the front

longeron to the rear longeron just aft of the baggage area. I was

hoping to attach it to a longeron that runs to the firewall like in

the Harmon Rocket, but there is not one that runs that far do to the

door cut outs on each side.

Thanks

-Mike

bob.condrey(at)baesystems
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



I'm interested in seeing the defrost system!

Bob #40105

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:37 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



They are little ones from B&C Specialty, 7 aH, I believe. They are

going to sit on a little tray that will be on the cabin side of the

firewall, up high. The Aux Battery Master contactor and the Crosstie

contactor will probably sit next to them. Still working that out . . .

TDT

40025

rick.conti(at)boeing.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Roger that.

Thank You

Rick Conti

office: 703-414-6141

cell: 571-215-6134

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



When I wired up my sailplane I had the choice of either 12 or 24. My Becker

250W transponder gave me the option of either voltage, but the person in the

field who I consulted told me that the 24v system would allow the

transponder to function more efficiently. I don't know what this means,

whether it could mean better penetration strength or was it simply a

resistence issue in going from the batteries to the unit and not the unit to

the antenae. I don't remember the mathmatical formulas for voltage, amps

resistence

Maybe I was misinformed, but it works fine.

John 40409

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Negative Battery Cable Connection

Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:10:38 -0700 (MST)

I'm curious what the perceived benefits of 24volts are. On a small plane,

I don't see a significant wt. advantage. Most 24V accessories I perceive

to be more expensive..maybe I'm wrong. Just trying to understand why I

should consider 24V.

Tim Dawson-Townsend said:

> YES!! At least one other person using 24 volts! Hooray for us!

>

> Like others, we have two Odyssey batteries, but they are wired in series

> . . .

>

> (Plus two little ones up front that are also in series . . .)

>

> TDT

>

> 40025

>

johncleary(at)mangertonns
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Rick,

Are you planning to use one of the Blue Mountains EFIS?

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the 24 volt explanation in 'Wiring for

Smart People'. For anybody who hasn't read it, it is downloadable free from

the Blue Mountains web site at the following link.

http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php#appnotes

John Cleary

schmoboy(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Not to fuel any fire, but here's some comments regarding Greg's writing...

<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/richter/richter.html>

-Sean #40303

John Cleary wrote:

[quote]

Rick,

Are you planning to use one of the Blue Mountains EFIS?

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the 24 volt explanation in 'Wiring for

Smart People'. For anybody who hasn't read it, it is downloadable free from

the Blue Mountains web site at the following link.

http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php#appnotes

John Cleary

dmasys(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti(at)boeing.com>

	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Is Odyssey an especially good battery?

	


I have an Odyssey PC680 in my RV-7A, now just over two years old (and another new one on the bench awaiting a swap at next oil change).

The Odyssey is indeed a very good battery, primarily because of small size, sealed design and a very low internal resistance that gives it the 680 amp cranking capacity that gives it the name.

It is basically a motorcycle battery and there are other cheaper batteries with the same form factor, but you have to read the small print to see that the cheaper ones have higher internal resistance, thus generate fewer amps and the possibility of internal heat during high current operations.

It is called out in Van's FWF plans for the -7 and is a good design choice on their part.

-Dan Masys

RV-7A flying

RV-10 tailcone mostly done

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



why do you swap every two years? The design life of the battery for the

military is over 10 years and the service life is considered to be 5-8

years.

---

dmasys(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007(at)cox.net>

Date: 2006/01/11 Wed PM 07:15:14 EST

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: RE: Negative Battery Cable Connection

 	  Quote: 	
		   why do you swap every two years? The design life of the battery for the military is over 10 years and the service life is considered to be 5-8 years.

Wasn't actually planning on every two years necessarily, though I appreciate my post made it seem that way. The older PC680 (only battery the -7A has ever had) is going to become the bench test battery for the RV-10, so the -7 is the beneficiary of the swap.

The smarter way to do this is Aeroelectric's timing setup annually that puts a load on the battery till its dead and measures time under load. The dumber, 'cheap insurance' way is just to swap it out before it has a chance to become even a potential problem.

-Dan Masys

[quote] ---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



BTW the link is http://www.enersysreservepower.com/ody b.asp?brandID=5.

check the specs. I am using the 925 in my wife's car to avoid the every two

year replacement in the AZ sun. Have a 925 as backup in the Glastar and a

680 on the firewall for starting. The 10 will have two 680 each capable of

starting.

---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



NO I DON'T OWN ANY STOCK but

You are here: EnerSys Home > Reserve Power > Odyssey Batteries

Odyssey Drycell T Batteries

a.. GUARANTEED LONGER SERVICE LIFE With a twelve year military grade

design life and a six-to-ten year service life, ODYSSEY® saves you time and

money because you do not have to replace the battery as often. ODYSSEY® has

the powersport exclusive 2-year full warranty against factory defects or

three full years in automotive, commercial and heavy-duty marine.

b.. SUPERIOR CRANKING AND FAST CHARGE CAPABILITY The 5 second

cranking power of ODYSSEY® batteries is double to triple that of equally

sized conventional batteries, even when the temperature is as low as -40°C.

Also, with simple constant voltage charging (14.2-15V) (alternator or

independent charger), there is no limitation on the in rush current, so the

user is assured of fast charge recovery.

c.. MOUNTING FLEXIBILITY The ODYSSEY® battery may be installed

on its sides at any angle without sacrificing any performance attributes.

There is no fear of any acid spillage as ODYSSEY® recycles the internal gas

during operation or charging.

d.. SUPERIOR VIBRATION RESISTANCE ODYSSEY® batteries are of

military grade and have endured rigorous tests that demonstrate their

overall ruggedness and exceptional tolerance of mechanical abuse.

e.. READY OUT OF THE BOX ODYSSEY® batteries are shipped fully

charged. If ODYSSEY'S® voltage is 12.65V or greater simply install the

battery in your vehicle and you are ready to go! If below 12.65V, boost

charge following the instructions in the ODYSSEY® Owner's Manual.

f.. WORRY-FREE SHIPPING The sealed design of the ODYSSEY®

battery eliminates the need for a acid vent tube; eliminating the fear of

acid burns or damage to expensive chrome or paint. Owing to the DrycellT

design, the US Department of Transportation (USDOT) has classified the

ODYSSEY® battery as a dry battery, so it may be shipped worry-free by

UPS/Federal Express or by air as non-spillable.

g.. LONGER STORAGE LIFE Unlike conventional batteries that

need to be recharged every six to twelve weeks the ODYSSEY® battery, when

fully charged, can be stored for up to 2 years at 25°C (77°F). Simply

recharge and ODYSSEY® is returned to full power. At lower temperatures,

storage times will be even longer.

h.. DEEP DISCHARGE RECOVERY Should ODYSSEY® become deeply

discharged, simply recharge following instructions in the ODYSSEY® Owners

Manual.

There is a also a pdf that explains the development of the

product

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Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Yeah, let's not re-hash old debates here . . .

TDT

do not archive

--

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Those Odyssey 680s are about $80 - 85 if I remember - cheap insurance to swap one every couple of years . . .

Give the used one to a motorcycle-driving friend . . .

TDT

40025

--

rv10builder(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: Negative Battery Cable Connection



Hey folks,

I'm usually quiet, but I gotta chime in on this one. I am a telecom

engineer, and one of my responsibilities is to maintain several large DC

power plants (-48V, 2K - 6K amps). My plants utilize flooded cells,

while those of my coworkers utilize VRLA's. The main difference in our

routines of monitoring and testing batteries is they are constantly

replacing them (while I am not). The same folks that manufacture

batteries for my company also make those that fit in experimental

airplanes. If you intend to use a "sealed" battery in your ship like I

do, you are welcome to mine following my annual. I intend to include

the $85 in the annual budget for battery replacement.

do not archive

Brian

Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:

[quote]Those Odyssey 680s are about $80 - 85 if I remember - cheap insurance to swap one every couple of years . . .

Give the used one to a motorcycle-driving friend . . .

TDT

40025

--

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