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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: SPOT

Kolbers,



I ran across this website about a very interesting product that would be very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over North America over hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal Locator Beacon but different, and cheaper I think.



http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx



$170 for the device plus $100/year for the satellite service. If I did the sort of flying that John and John do, I wouldn't leave home without it. 



Not a plug just found it interesting.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: SPOT

At 09:28 AM 1/9/2008, Thom Riddle wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  I ran across this website about a very interesting product that would be 

very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over North America over 

hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal Locator Beacon but different...


	


Isn't that what an ELT's for?



-Dana



--

  If it were truly the thought that counted, more women would be pregnant.

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: SPOT

You would think that is what a ELT is for. I attended a form at Oshkosh a 

few years ago put on by search and rescue folks. They stated that they 

ignore ELT transmissions. I have to assume that is because there are so many 

false broadcasts. They start looking for people only when someone calls or 

they are over due on a flight plan. Then and only then do they home in on 

the ELT broadcast. Now they are switching to new frequencies and want us to 

switch. Guess what the new ELTs are more expensive. Will they respond any 

better to the new frequencies, I doubt it.



Now maybe thinks have changed with the lower number of flyers these days but 

I'm not going to waist my money on the new ELTs. If I start flying over 

remote areas I would rather have something like spot.



What do you guys think?



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: SPOT

Dana,

These new digital units are much more accurate than the older ELTs.



Denny

 	  Quote: 	
		   Isn't that what an ELT's for?

 

 -Dana

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: SPOT

Rick,



Like local FSDOs I think the S and R response to ELT signals varies all over the place. Last year, we accidentally left the ELT on our Allegro turned on after a test and were called by the airport manager within two hours, which is how long it took for them to narrow it down to our hangar.



That said, I think a satellite messenger like the SPOT thing is the way to go. Of course this assumes emergency personnel respond to THAT signal. If the local S and R folks don't respond to ELTs, will they respond to this? Open question, but at least the very precise location data has been transmitted to the folks who should do the S and R. And of course, if you are still conscious you can also activate the notify your family/friends feature which might help spur some action.... unless you are really unloved   .

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: SPOT

In  re locater beacons -- they're great, and getting better all the  

time. Good ones broadcast your position, even  if you're unconscious.

Hope never to need it, but I LIKE that!

But look at the marine ones; lots more boating units (EPIRBS)  are  

sold and the prices are lower for the same features

On Jan 9, 2008, at 1:59 PM, Dana Hague wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 At 09:28 AM 1/9/2008, Thom Riddle wrote:



> I ran across this website about a very interesting product that  

> would be very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over  

> North America over hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal  

> Locator Beacon but different...



 Isn't that what an ELT's for?



 -Dana



 --

  If it were truly the thought that counted, more women would be  

 pregnant.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: SPOT

Isn't an ELT required for anything other than local flights in any 

registered aircraft?



-Dana

--

  C:\ Bad command or file name! Go stand in the corner.

MKIIIX040

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Millinocket, Maine

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: SPOT

Elt's for 2 seaters only.

  

 Vic

  

  

 "Isn't an ELT required for anything other than local flights in any  

registered aircraft?"



   [quote][b]

_________________
MKIIIX040
912UL

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: SPOT

I'm not doing any long flights - yet - but I do do a lot of solo 

backcountry hiking and mountain climbing and I've looked at regular 

locator beacons.  Don't want to pay the price of those things, but this 

one looks very interesting.  Thanks much.                            

Lar.               Do not Archive.



Thom Riddle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Kolbers,



 I ran across this website about a very interesting product that would be very useful, particularly for you guys who fly all over North America over hostile terrain. It is sort of like a Personal Locator Beacon but different, and cheaper I think.



 http://www.findmespot.com/explorespot/spotmessenger.aspx



 $170 for the device plus $100/year for the satellite service. If I did the sort of flying that John and John do, I wouldn't leave home without it. 



 Not a plug just found it interesting.



 --------

 Thom Riddle

 N221FA Allegro 2000 912UL

 N197BG FS1/447

 --------------------

 Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.

 - Buddha





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=156934#156934

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: SPOT

ELT's for 2-seaters only? I was required to have them  in  my 4-seat Cessna for years!  Is that only for LSA or  Experimental or what? 

I'm confused.

On Jan 9, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Vic Peters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Elt's for 2 seaters only.

 

Vic

 

 

"Isn't an ELT required for anything other than local flights in any 

registered aircraft?"



 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

MKIIIX040

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Millinocket, Maine

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: SPOT

Sorry I meant 2 or more

  

 "ELT's for 2-seaters only? I was required to have them  in  my  4-seat Cessna for years!    Is that only for LSA or  Experimental or what? 

 I'm confused."

  

 Vic 



   [quote][b]

_________________
MKIIIX040
912UL

Bill Vincent

Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 84

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: SPOT

Hi Thom

That is a great idea. You won't just need to use it in the plane; I can see 

it's use for walking in the wilderness.

All my life I thought I was invincible but after injuring myself in a fall 

last December; I realized that a person should have a device like the 

personal locator beacon because there are many areas where a cell phone does 

not work.

Luckily I was close to home when I injured myself, but if I would have been 

out in the wilderness all alone, like many times I am, I would not be 

writing this letter right now.

Thanks for the tip.

Bill Vincent

FS II

Do Not Archive



---

_________________
Bill Vincent
Firestar II
Upper Peninsula of Michigan

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: SPOT

The old 121Mhz ELT's are pretty much worthless; they were a political 

knee-jerk to SAR people not being able to find some political bigwigs & 

were designed by politicians. It can take a half-dozen passes (many 

hours) by the satellite to get the location in the right *state*. Then 

there's the false alarm problem. Some of the certified units can be 

triggered unrelated electromagnetic radiation generated by a/c avionics. 

Duh...



The new 406 Mhz stuff does seem to actually work. It's much more 

accurate, only 1 satellite pass for a fix & if you have one with GPS 

built in it's extremely accurate. In a rare fit of allowing 

self-determination of our fates, the FAA doesn't currently mandate 

buying the new ELTs, they just say they will no longer monitor the old 

121MHZ units after the cutoff date. (Some form of certified ELT is still 

mandated, but you can buy a cheapo 121 to comply with the law & then buy 

a high quality Personal Locater Beacon to enable actual rescue. Downside 

is that typical PLBs with GPS are about $1K & up.



Here's a pretty good website describing the various systems:

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html



I'd love to know whether the Spot system is using the public 

Cospas-Sarsat statellite system. If it is, it might be worthwhile to buy 

one even with the 1st year's subscription. If it's hitting the public 

satellites, You should get SAR even after the subscription expires. 

Anyone want to do the research?



Charlie



Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:

[quote] 

 <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>

 

 You would think that is what a ELT is for. I attended a form at Oshkosh 

 a few years ago put on by search and rescue folks. They stated that they 

 ignore ELT transmissions. I have to assume that is because there are so 

 many false broadcasts. They start looking for people only when someone 

 calls or they are over due on a flight plan. Then and only then do they 

 home in on the ELT broadcast. Now they are switching to new frequencies 

 and want us to switch. Guess what the new ELTs are more expensive. Will 

 they respond any better to the new frequencies, I doubt it.

 

 Now maybe thinks have changed with the lower number of flyers these days 

 but I'm not going to waist my money on the new ELTs. If I start flying 

 over remote areas I would rather have something like spot.

 

 What do you guys think?

 

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 

 ---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: SPOT

> The old 121Mhz ELT's are pretty much worthless;



 	  Quote: 	
		   a high quality Personal Locater Beacon to enable actual rescue. Downside 

 is that typical PLBs with GPS are about $1K & up.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Charlie


	




Hi Charlie:



If the ELT was/is worthless, guess a lot of us wasted our money.



However, I have been located with my ELT on several occassions.  Once I 

fired it off, as the result of a hard landing.  My fault for not checking 

121.5 before I shut down the radio.  The second occassion was a crash, which 

I walked away from, and again forgot to shut down the ELT before I departed 

the accident scene.  Both times I got calls from the FAA and CAP.  Took a 

while but they found me.



I have had an ACR Microfix PLB with GPS for almost a year now.  Didn't cost 

near what you state a typical PLB with GPS cost.  Closer to half that.  I 

use it for flying, dirt biking, ATV, and back country recreation.  I am 

usually solo, so it is very good insurance for me should I get injured or 

stranded, in a critical situation.



There are a lot of up sides to PLB:



1-No annual subscription.



2-Direct link to SARSAT.  PLB transmits a unique code that ID's me.



3-My PLB is registered with my info on file for contacts at home as well as 

a friend.



4-Small in size and light in weight.  Batteries are good for 5 years.



Here is a link to more SARSAT info:



http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/



My PLB does not take the place of an ELT in my two place experiemental, but 

it should expedite notification and pin point rescue any where in the world 

if necessary.



Don't know what I will do when it comes time for a new 406 ELT.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: SPOT

Might Life Alert thingy Work as well ?

  

 Ellery

  

  not archive



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: SPOT

Ellery:

  

 Good idea!

  

 Is that the one that goes, "Help, I have fallen down and can't  get up!"?

  

 I think that is the msg my PLB xmits.  Whatever  works.  

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

   Might Life Alert thingy Work as well    ?

    

   Ellery

    

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: SPOT

no i think its like this John, I have fallen and I can't reach my drink ....LOL

  

 Ellery

  

 do not archive



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: SPOT

 	  Quote: 	
		  Guess what the new ELTs are more expensive. Will they respond any better to the new frequencies, I doubt it. 	




I understand that these new units not only sent an emergency signal as the old ones did, but also send GPS co-ordinates plus coded info that includes registration, owners name, address & contact number. 



So the first action that the authorities take on receiving an ELT signal is ring up the registered owner and check out the status of things, . . . did they go flying, how many, what provisions etc. If the feedback warrants it, they then move on to the next stage.



Sounds like quite an improvement to me.



David.

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: SPOT

Subject: Re: SPOT

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I understand that these new units not only sent an emergency signal as the 

 old ones did, but also send GPS co-ordinates plus coded info that includes 

 registration, owners name, address & contact number.



 So the first action that the authorities take on receiving an ELT signal 

 is ring up the registered owner and check out the status of things, . . . 

 did they go flying, how many, what provisions etc. If the feedback 

 warrants it, they then move on to the next stage.



 Sounds like quite an improvement to me.



 David.


	




It is my understanding ( more of a question than stating a fact) that they 

will not monitor the old frequency after the 09 date, but that they can 

still receive the signal if they have info that the plane is down, or didn't 

show up. Makes you wonder about Faucett though. Perhaps no one changed the 

batteries?

Larry C



do not archive

_________________
do not archive

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: SPOT

I think I read that PLB's still broadcast on 121.5  for close-in,  

short-range locating of a wreck after the main freq on the 'new  

unit'  has got the rescuers close. I believe airliners will monitor  

121.5 for a long time yet. They'll be your best chance  of being  

heard on 121.5

On Jan 10, 2008, at 4:15 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <lcottrell(at)fmtcblue.com>



 Subject: Re: SPOT

> 

> <d_a_lucas(at)hotmail.com>

>

> I understand that these new units not only sent an emergency  

> signal as the old ones did, but also send GPS co-ordinates plus  

> coded info that includes registration, owners name, address &  

> contact number.

>

> So the first action that the authorities take on receiving an ELT  

> signal is ring up the registered owner and check out the status of  

> things, . . . did they go flying, how many, what provisions etc.  

> If the feedback warrants it, they then move on to the next stage.

>

> Sounds like quite an improvement to me.

>

> David.

 It is my understanding ( more of a question than stating a fact)  

 that they will not monitor the old frequency after the 09 date, but  

 that they can still receive the signal if they have info that the  

 plane is down, or didn't show up. Makes you wonder about Faucett  

 though. Perhaps no one changed the batteries?

 Larry C



 do not archive

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