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Work Table - how level is level enough?

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Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:

http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf



I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about 1/8".  Is this good

enough or should I try to tweak it more.



Curt



p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built

the table.

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agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

I built the same table last March as a 4x12, and got the same general variations. Have now completed both wings and I have no "twist" in either one. One note, recheck the table for flat and level between wings. Mine had changed a small amount requiring some shims, maybe due to seasonal changes. Good luck



Art Gibeaut

Erie, IL

CH701 Wings and tail done.

--- On Thu, 1/10/08, Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net>

 Subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Thursday, January 10, 2008, 3:29 PM

 I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following

 the plans here:

 http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf

 

 I have a "water level" and it appears that it is

 level to better than 1/4"

 over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about

 1/8".  Is this good

 enough or should I try to tweak it more.

 

 Curt

 

 p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my

 garage until I built

 the table.


	




Be a better friend, newshound, and 

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Curt,

Flat is probably more important here and the 1/8" irregularity of your 

surface will average out fine.

The level condition is one you can shim to when it becomes necessary to 

"go level".  This is only

necessary sometimes when you're making structural assy alignments. Tip: 

go for level once and make

shims that you can place under the table casters and otherwise hang 

shims on the nail of the legs that

need them.



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



Curt Thompson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:

 http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf



 I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

 over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about 1/8".  Is this good

 enough or should I try to tweak it more.



 Curt



 p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built

 the table.

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Sounds fine. You're going to be building the wing on shims anyway due to the curvature and the clecoes when you're done the first side so level up the wing structure on the shims then. Even so, the more level the table the easier it is to work on in general for all kinds of stuff.



 	  Curt.Thompson(at)verizon. wrote: 	
		  I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:

http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf



I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about 1/8".  Is this good

enough or should I try to tweak it more.



Curt



p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built

the table.

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Flatness is more importent then level, if you are within 1/8" you are going to be in great shape for all the sub assemblies built on it.  Enjoy the process.. !!!

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Curt Thompson" <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net> wrote:

I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:

http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf



I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about 1/8".  Is this good

enough or should I try to tweak it more.



Curt



p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built

the table.

_____________________________________________________________

Start a career as a pharmacy assistant.  Click here for more information

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

my opinion only:

   

  Assuming that you have a usefully stiff deck on the table, I think that the table needs to be flat within a 1/16" or less over the length and no measurable twist or warp in the short direction.

   

  For a sheet metal or wooden plane I do not think level is real important.

   

  Make sure that you have enough legs to adequately overcome any table related flatness issues. One way to manage the final positoin requirements is to mix bondo or something similar and glob it around the point where the bottom of the legs all contact the floor/shim. In the case where the table bows up, shim to flat withbags of cement/equivalent as ballast. When the bondo cures thetable will stay where you put it.

   

  Caveat: if the slab or deck the table is mounted to the tablel will move with it - so keep that inmind as you set it and tend to forget it; re-establishing  flat is a periodic and important task. The Bondo simply breaks from the floor with a light side impact or two from a sledge hammer and the setting can be corrected with more shims, less shims, and a new blob of bondo.



Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:

http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf



I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this good

enough or should I try to tweak it more.



Curt



p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built

the table.



	


  Dave Downey

  Harleysville (SE) PA

  100 HP  Corvair

  [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

I spent 40 bucks and bought 2 4x4x12 1/4 inch thick angle and when you  build the wings they work great on the table because you don't have to worry  about shims under the wing because the front and rear spars are resting on the  angle. All you have to do is level the angle and the table didn't matter. It is  a pain in the ass to work on the wing while they are sitting on blocks on the  table, on the angle they don't move.

 Then the angle was used to build a fixture to build the plane on until  I installed the mains.

  

 Jeff

 1 601xl flying W/Corvair

 1 601xl going to paint tomorrow W/Corvair

 1 601xl ready for turtle deck  Corvair built ready to install

 1 601xl on order Corvair being built

 Finishing them all.......Priceless!!!!!

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/10/2008 2:44:57 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  planecrazydld(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net>  wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		  I've      built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans      here:

http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf



I      have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than      1/4"

over 16 feet. It is probably flat to within about 1/8". Is this      good

enough or should I try to tweak it    more.



Curt

	
	


 

  



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Try to get it as level as you can.  When your table is level, then it can be used as a "reference" when you want the bottom and the top of workpieces to be level.   Like putting a level across the top of a fuselage section, for example.  You'll already know the bottom piece that's resting on the table is level...



Once you've got it as level as you can, you can test for flatness with marbles.  



All that being said, it doesn't have to be perfect.  Anybody with the ambition to even think about building an airplane will probably do a pretty good job of making a workbench, and it's probably going to be good enough for our low-mach aircraft.  



Patrick

XL/Corvair

N63PZ

ifly4fun2(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Curt,

As most have mentioned flatness is a necessity as well as checking for twist lengthwise.  One

simple method to confirm this is by tightly criss-crossing two strings at some consistent height

from corner to corner over the length of the table and measuring the space at the intersection of

the strings.  How much of a gap is acceptable? Hell I don't know, I just made it as small possible

(strings attempting to slightly diverge each other).



Art

Scratch'in 701

--- Curt Thompson <Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I've built a 4ft by 16ft work table roughly following the plans here:

 http://www.ch601.org/tools/Visio-12%20foot%20work%20table.pdf

 

 I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

 over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about 1/8".  Is this good

 enough or should I try to tweak it more.

 

 Curt

 

 p.s. I didn't realize how much slope there was to my garage until I built

 the table.

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Hi Curt,



 After several missteps, I made what I think is the ideal workbench for building airplanes.  The top is flat to within 1 mm across the entire work surface.  Oddly, the work surface is not a normal table top.  Rather it is an array of wood 2x4s with their top edges aligned with each.  



 Here is a picture of the bench in use on a Zodiac XL wing.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

 The procedure for making the bench started with a normal particle board top 4x12 table reinforced with various strips of wood underneath including full length 2x4s.  Then the top 2x4's are laid across the bench and their position marked.  



 A laser level was used to make the ultra-flat working surface.  First the laser level was used to project a beam over the top of the 2.4's.  A white ruler was used to measure the distance from the laser beam to the table top and the distance marked on the table.  4 or 5 measurements were taken along the length of each 2x4.  Then shims were cut from wood on a table saw.  After doing a little arithmetic  (subtracting a constant from each measurement) a shim matching the required adjustment was placed at each measurement location under the 2x4.  Then each 2x4 was glued and bolted to the particle board top.  



 The notches near the ends of the 2x4s are used to allow normal length screws to hold the 2x4 to the table.  You can also see some small blocks screwed to the top of some of the 2x4s to fix the wing position so you can work on it without it moving.



 One final step was to mark the leg locations on the shop floor.  This allows the table to be returned to the place where the measurements were made if it is moved.  The marking is just a matter of using a rattle can of spray paint around each leg on the floor.



 This sounds complicated, but you can probably build such a table top faster than you can read this explanation.  You get a nearly perfect work surface for building your parts.  The elevated work surface allows Clecos to be installed while still maintaining the flat work surface.



 Good luck,



 Paul

 XL fuselage



 

 At 01:29 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have a "water level" and it appears that it is level to better than 1/4"

 over 16 feet.  It is probably flat to within about 1/8".  Is this good

 enough or should I try to tweak it more.

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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Work Table - how level is level enough?

Hi Curt:

             Check  in the Zenith Construction Standards - there is a suggestion as to how  flat  or twisted aircraft components should be. I would make the bench flat  to half that amount to give a little margin. Level is not so much an  issue.

  

 do not archive

  

 John  Read



Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year. 

  [quote][b]

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