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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position |
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I'm pulling this old message out of the archive from August 2005. Maybe you remember it, John McD was frustrated with the canopy frame and his process. He posted his frustration here and got a gutful of "you're not a real builder" response (his original post was intended to be humorous).
I've thought about John a lot in the last year or so because I'm not sure we've heard from his since and if you're out there, John, I'm wondering how you ever survived this process.
I started my canopy frame almost a year ago and things were going nicely until the last month or so. Plexi has been drilled fitted, side skirts fit nicely. Reinforcing kit clecoed in place. Check. Check. check
Last week I put the struts on and didn't realize I'd taken the reinforcing kit off and, the thing pulled the frame wayyy forward. The struts were installed exactly as instructed.
So this week I riveted the reinforcing kit on. I didn't encounter any problems doing so.
Today I put the frame back on ..so far so good. Then reattached the struts. Spronnnnnnnng! Now the right side is sitting up 5/8" as measured at the rear of the riderear side of the frame. Where the hell did THAT twist come from.
Now the nice 1/4" space between the rear channel (as measured from the inside of the web to the roll bar is now 1/2" as measured from the end of the flange on the channel. Cripes.
So I thought again about John and wondered if he made it through this disaster of a process.
As for me, I'm giving up.
------------
OK, I started this whole thread as a joke, and trying to relieve my
frustration, but really ....
... Now I'm on a rant!
The reason I picked Vans was because it is the best kit out there in so, so
many ways.
Where else (certified or not) can you get a plane that will fly like this at
this cost? Where else can you find such a clear builders manual aided by
readily available tech support? (Thank you Tom Green et al for your patience with
an idiot like me.) BUT!!!...
Right from the outset I realized that I was not one of these guys that builds
the first one then suffers from "builders withdrawal" and immediately starts
building another. I DO NOT enjoy the building process. It's a means to an
end for me. I will never do this again. I just want to fly the thing, and I
want it to be right when I do,
There is a certain satisfaction from following the (usually) clear
directions, taking the time to understand the (usually) accurate drawings (the
biggest
aggregate time in my builder's log will be the looking at the drawings, head
scratching process. OK, my problem, my bad.), lining up the holes, being
precise, riveting the thing and finally saying, "Wow! I built a rudder, and it's
a
real quality job, thank you, thank you Vans for your design and the technical
support you provide to newbies like me." Tedium and patience is part of the
process to get it right, and you start to think, "OK, I can do this, I can
build an airframe if I just follow directions."
But then you run into things like this (the canopy) and all good will goes
out the window. Frustration doesn't need to be a part of the process if it can
be avoided.
I'm no engineer, but I'm reasonably intelligent, so can somebody tell me why
Vans couldn't put the welded canopy frame (and roll bar) in some kind of
factory jig to make it fit the rest of the airframe? I can visualize such an
apparatus but I have neither the skill, means, nor would it be practical for me
to
build such a jig for a "one time" application. If you can match drill skins
and ribs surely you can match drill this section too. Just tell me what it
costs and I'll pay it.
Right in Section 9 (Fitting the Canopy) page 1 of the manual it says this can
be "... one of the most disappointing, gumption-robbing experiences a
homebuilder can have." Got that right!
Just can't wait until I get to (Vans words) "The black art" of fiberglass.
Why is it that several guys are making a buck with fairings better than what
Vans supplies? Better yet, what a joy will wiring this sucker be? Why can't
Vans recommend a typical instrument panel and supply the components for the
same instead of me putting out $5K for someone to do this part?
A while back in the RV ator Van himself questioned why he had sold xx,xxx
thousand empenage kits when there were only x,xxx thousand flying. He said,
"What happened to the other x,xxx thousand?" You want my answer to date? The
canopy! No skill one has acquired thus far in the process prepares you for this
mess. Is it possible to leave the damn thing off and just fly with goggles?
Hello Vans! Fix it! Let me do my 51% somewhere else! There must
be other builders like me!
Please don't flame me. It would just add to my frustration at this point.
John McD (RV7A - (at)#
%$ Canopy - ARRGGHAAA)
Don't care if you archive or not, but please, somebody at Vans read this!!!
Rant over. Tomorrow is another day. Maybe the elves will finish the canopy
while I sleep.
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Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/ |
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d-burton(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position |
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Now the nice 1/4" space between the rear channel (as measured from the inside of the web to the roll bar is now 1/2" as measured from the end of the flange on the channel. Cripes.
As for me, I'm giving up.
I learned a lot from a carpenter at work when I was young. One of the things he said that I will always remember is that the trick to being a good carpenter wasn’t knowing how to do something right it was how to make it right. That is certainly one of the tricks experienced plane builders know that first-timers don’t.
I’d love to see the builder’s manual for the RV10. The builder’s manual for my RV6 consisted of an inventory sheet and a couple of cryptic notes. At least that is what it seemed like to me. One of the ways we get a superb plane for a fraction of the price of a certified plane is the limited hand holding. I think Van’s is getting better at this, but I think there would have been lots more completions if they had provided better builder’s manuals. Their kits would have had to cost more to pay for this.
I’m interested to see what the RV-12 manual and kit is like. They are expending lots of design work on making the kit fast and easy to build. I’m really interested by this kit for several reasons. I understand the necessity of have the fuel tank in the cockpit but don’t like that aspect. There probably isn’t a solution for it.
DaveB
[quote][b]
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Mark Phillips in TN
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: Canopy frame puts grown man into fetal position |
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In a message dated 01/20/2008 4:59:42 PM Central Standard Time, bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net writes:
| Quote: | Today I put the frame back on ..so far so good. Then reattached the struts. Spronnnnnnnng! Now the right side is sitting up 5/8" as measured at the rear of the riderear side of the frame. Where the hell did THAT twist come from.
Now the nice 1/4" space between the rear channel (as measured from the inside of the web to the roll bar is now 1/2" as measured from the end of the flange on the channel. Cripes. |
Bob, don't give up- the advice from the carpenter is most excellent! If I understand you correctly (no idea what "riderear" means- upset, are ya?) is seems that the pressure from the struts is shoving the frame forward and lifting it on the right side? You have to get control! (of the frame, that is<G>!) Sounds like you're talking about a tip-up?
During my build, I'd read some rv-list horror stories about the front of the canopy fouling the front skin after the struts were installed shoving the canopy forward against the top skin, resulting in some seriously mangled skins. I decided to add positive stops for the front of the canopy frame as shown here:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4983
Unsure if this would help, but these things are just machines- they CAN be conquered!
Mark
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
[quote][b]
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