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Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

Hey all - 



I know someone around here has thought about filling the doors with an expanding foam to give them some density and make 'em be less flimsy.  Anyone care to speculate if you'd split your door in two by doing this?  I was thinking something like this:



http://jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm



I called and spoke with John Greer there and tried to explain myself.  "uh, so, I'm building an airplane, and I was thinking..."  you know how those conversations go.  I asked if he thought I'd blow up the door by filling it with that stuff, and he said he didn't think so.  After thinking about it a bit, I think I agree.  My reasoning:  on his website (and others with similar products) there's a picture of a paper cup with some foam that has been poured and expanded in it.  the foam expands over the top, and creates a muffin-top type situation.  the paper cup retains it's shape, and doesn't split.  So, think I, as long as you have open space for the foam to expand, it's not going to split the door.  



Now, this is all my hair-brained theory.  The leap to filling my already-fitting and built doors with something that could destroy them gives me pause.  The upside to doing this is that it seems like it'll make the doors feel much less flimsy, not add too much weight, insulate a bit, cut down on noise, etc.  Downsides?  possibly having to build new doors.  hmmm.  I think I'm going to get some of this foam and do some testing.  While I'm on this voyage of discovery, anyone want to give their opinion?  A search of the archives only had one entry on the subject, and it had not much detail.



cj

#40410

finishing/FF/various science projects

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

The paper cup is a different story as it can easely expand, if you have 

a small and narrow channel the story might come out different!



I would be very carefull with that approach, for a short open space ok, 

for a long (>3" and narrow (1" or less)) I would leave my fingers off, 

and then there is the weight of UR foam.



as usuasl just my 5cents



Werner



Chris Johnston wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hey all - 



 I know someone around here has thought about filling the doors with an expanding foam to give them some density and make 'em be less flimsy.  Anyone care to speculate if you'd split your door in two by doing this?  I was thinking something like this:



 http://jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm



 I called and spoke with John Greer there and tried to explain myself.  "uh, so, I'm building an airplane, and I was thinking..."  you know how those conversations go.  I asked if he thought I'd blow up the door by filling it with that stuff, and he said he didn't think so.  After thinking about it a bit, I think I agree.  My reasoning:  on his website (and others with similar products) there's a picture of a paper cup with some foam that has been poured and expanded in it.  the foam expands over the top, and creates a muffin-top type situation.  the paper cup retains it's shape, and doesn't split.  So, think I, as long as you have open space for the foam to expand, it's not going to split the door.  



 Now, this is all my hair-brained theory.  The leap to filling my already-fitting and built doors with something that could destroy them gives me pause.  The upside to doing this is that it seems like it'll make the doors feel much less flimsy, not add too much weight, insulate a bit, cut down on noise, etc.  Downsides?  possibly having to build new doors.  hmmm.  I think I'm going to get some of this foam and do some testing.  While I'm on this voyage of discovery, anyone want to give their opinion?  A search of the archives only had one entry on the subject, and it had not much detail.



 cj

 #40410

 finishing/FF/various science projects

 www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

There are people who have put fabric on their doors who already

can't get the lift cylinders to stay up well.  It would

only get worse over time.  Mine work good, but I would never

bother filling them with foam.



If you want me to be blunt, I could just say

"Hey cj, that's a dumb idea."  But instead, I'll just

say......is it really worth the possible downsides? 



I think you'll find that just having fabric on the inside of the

plane will deaden echo'd sounds, and make it pretty quiet.

And, warmth wise you really have no concerns.  The heat

output in the -10 is incredible.  I fly in 10F weather with

no jacket in the plane because you can easily warm it

comfortable with 1/2 heat.  I can't even use full heat.

Anyway, you got my .02.   No offense, just havin' fun.



Tim



Chris Johnston wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hey all -

 

 I know someone around here has thought about filling the doors with

 an expanding foam to give them some density and make 'em be less

 flimsy.  Anyone care to speculate if you'd split your door in two by

 doing this?  I was thinking something like this:

 

 http://jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm

 

 I called and spoke with John Greer there and tried to explain myself.

 "uh, so, I'm building an airplane, and I was thinking..."  you know

 how those conversations go.  I asked if he thought I'd blow up the

 door by filling it with that stuff, and he said he didn't think so.

 After thinking about it a bit, I think I agree.  My reasoning:  on

 his website (and others with similar products) there's a picture of a

 paper cup with some foam that has been poured and expanded in it.

 the foam expands over the top, and creates a muffin-top type

 situation.  the paper cup retains it's shape, and doesn't split.  So,

 think I, as long as you have open space for the foam to expand, it's

 not going to split the door.

 

 Now, this is all my hair-brained theory.  The leap to filling my

 already-fitting and built doors with something that could destroy

 them gives me pause.  The upside to doing this is that it seems like

 it'll make the doors feel much less flimsy, not add too much weight,

 insulate a bit, cut down on noise, etc.  Downsides?  possibly having

 to build new doors.  hmmm.  I think I'm going to get some of this

 foam and do some testing.  While I'm on this voyage of discovery,

 anyone want to give their opinion?  A search of the archives only had

 one entry on the subject, and it had not much detail.

 

 cj #40410 finishing/FF/various science projects 

 www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

Hey CJ,



Have you installed the windows in the doors yet?  I thought the doors

were flimsy too, until I installed the windows.  Seem plenty rigid to me

now.  With real issues surrounding door fit, the door latch and the

installation of a locking mechanism, rigidity of the door has not been a

concern for me. YMMV tho'



Cheers,

Ron

187 still trying to finish



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

Absolutely do not do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  

 You will find out several things. As has been said, with so little space for the foam to expand into, it can easily seal itself off, leaving no place for the expansion to go and it will warp and bow out your doors. If you could have each part half still in their mold halves and then fill it and close the mold, it would be a different story. 

  

 "Do Not Seek The Treasure!!!!" Oh Brother Where Art Thou

  

 JOhn G.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:08:02 -0800

 From: CJohnston(at)popsound.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 

 Hey all - 

 

 I know someone around here has thought about filling the doors with an expanding foam to give them some density and make 'em be less flimsy. Anyone care to speculate if you'd split your door in two by doing this? I was thinking something like this:

 

 http://jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm

 

 I called and spoke with John Greer there and tried to explain myself. "uh, so, I'm building an airplane, and I was thinking..." you know how those conversations go. I asked if he thought I'd blow up the door by filling it with that stuff, and he said he didn't think so. After thinking about it a bit, I think I agree. My reasoning: on his website (and others with similar products) there's a picture of a paper cup with some foam that has been poured and expanded in it. the foam expands over the top, and creates a muffin-top type situation. the paper cup retains it's shape, and doesn't split. So, think I, as long as you have open space for the foam to expand, it's not going to split the door. 

 

 Now, this is all my hair-brained theory. The leap to filling my already-fitting and built doors with something that could destroy them gives me pause. The upside to doing this is that it seems like it'll make the doors feel much less flimsy, not add too much weight, insulate a bit, cut down on noise, etc. Downsides? possibly having to build new doors. hmmm. I think I'm going to get some of this foam and do some testing. While I'm on this voyage of discovery, anyone want to give their opinion? A search of the archives only had one entry on the subject, and it had not much detail.

 

 cj

 #40410

 finishing/FF/various science projects

 www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

 


	


  [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

Been there, done that .... but not on parts like these doors.  If you 

decide to go down this path .... and I think it's a good idea .... there 

are a few things you can control, and a few that you can't.



You really should make some weep holes along the cavity ..... a place 

for the pressure to go.  Plug these with a tapered plug that's snug, not 

tight.  At any signs of swelling, pull the plugs.



The pressure can get fairly high per sq. in., but having a close space 

makes the foam denser, and therefore stronger.  If there's a seam that 

didn't get sufficient epoxy, it may part.



To do a good job, you need to get the liquid foam  to coat the whole 

cavity before it flashes off.  The cooler you keep it, the longer your 

working time.  once it starts to kick, it generates it's own heat and 

it'll run away pretty quickly. 



You need to have some way to get the liquid mix into the cavity ..... 

you may be able to take a baggie, cut a corner off, and tape a tube in 

the hole.  Fill the baggie with the mix, and squeeze it like a bakers 

icing bag into the cavity.  I had a machine that mixed the two parts and 

I could spray it into a cavity.



Having gone all through this, if there's a boat manufacturer near you, 

they have the machine to spray foam into flotation places and can give 

you some pointers.

Linn



Chris Johnston wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hey all - 



I know someone around here has thought about filling the doors with an expanding foam to give them some density and make 'em be less flimsy.  Anyone care to speculate if you'd split your door in two by doing this?  I was thinking something like this:



http://jgreer.com/Foam%20Page.htm



I called and spoke with John Greer there and tried to explain myself.  "uh, so, I'm building an airplane, and I was thinking..."  you know how those conversations go.  I asked if he thought I'd blow up the door by filling it with that stuff, and he said he didn't think so.  After thinking about it a bit, I think I agree.  My reasoning:  on his website (and others with similar products) there's a picture of a paper cup with some foam that has been poured and expanded in it.  the foam expands over the top, and creates a muffin-top type situation.  the paper cup retains it's shape, and doesn't split.  So, think I, as long as you have open space for the foam to expand, it's not going to split the door.  



Now, this is all my hair-brained theory.  The leap to filling my already-fitting and built doors with something that could destroy them gives me pause.  The upside to doing this is that it seems like it'll make the doors feel much less flimsy, not add too much weight, insulate a bit, cut down on noise, etc.  Downsides?  possibly having to build new doors.  hmmm.  I think I'm going to get some of this foam and do some testing.  While I'm on this voyage of discovery, anyone want to give their opinion?  A search of the archives only had one entry on the subject, and it had not much detail.



cj

#40410

finishing/FF/various science projects

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net

GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

CJ,

  

 What happens to Urethane when it burns...what types of gasing off are  you going to get as the foam expands and continues to gas-off.  Some  applications of expandables can cause irritation to lungs and soft tissues both  immediately and long term migration.  

  

 P



Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living.

  [quote][b]

Jon Reining

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

I just foamed the walls of my house for insulation and went through a pretty extensive search.  There's a big difference between the open and closed cell foam.  Its looks like you're looking at closed cell foam.  The open cell foam tends to weigh less, but also have a pretty huge expansion factor when its applied.  So I'd definitely stay away from that.  



The closed cell foam doesn't expand as much, is denser (and weighs more) but also adds quite a bit of structural strength.



I ended up going with closed cell foam that is made primarily from soy beans and had an R value of like 7.5 per inch of foam.  As an insulator on a house its awesome.



So, to apply all this to airplane building...  I don't think its entirely crazy, but I'd be especially careful.  Perhaps glass up a simulated door cavity and try it out and see how you like it.

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

Just one thought on the foam.  You also have to be concerned about water

absorption and UV and heat affects.



   



Rene' Felker

N423CF

40322

801-721-6080

--

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

Thanks for all the input everyone.  Sometimes I get nutty ideas while

I'm sitting here at work, and I need people to tell me they're nutty.

Sheesh.  It's not like I don't have other building tasks to work on 

I'll just build on, and forgo the foam-core-door idea.  



cj

n8vim(at)arrl.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: Urethane pourable expanding foam in doors?

If the doors catch fire, just open the door handle and the door disappears!



-Jim 40384

do not archive



GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   CJ,

  

 What happens to Urethane when it burns...what types of gasing off are 

 you going to get as the foam expands and continues to gas-off.  Some 

 applications of expandables can cause irritation to lungs and soft 

 tissues both immediately and long term migration. 

  

 P



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL 

 Living. 

 <http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598>



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