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Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Evening Noel,

 

I note that the one you googled is dated as revision 4. My copy is revision  

3 and I see that revision 4 shows all new pages!

 

I guess I will have to print a whole new manual. I wonder if they really  did 

revise every page or if they just decided to list all of them as new? That's  

an awful lot of wasted paper!

 

Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  

noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:



 

I just googled jabiru  Schematic and came up with this: (top of the page!) 

_www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf_ 

(http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf)  

Everything  you wanted to know about Jabiru engines and more besides...  

Check out page 54 for a circuit diagram.  That diagram shows the output  to the 

battery being switched ( Master) and protected by a fuse link.   The feed to the 

main buss is not switched or protected....  Iâ€™d recommend  a breaker of at 

least the capacity of the alternator.  Funny on page 57  they say to hook up the 

battery direct...  I donâ€™t htink they looked at  their own schematic and thatâ€™

s what Iâ€™d go by. 

According  to page 56 you can put a switch on the red wire that comes from 

pin #5 on the  voltage regulator and then feed the output of that switch to the 

main  buss. 

A  word of caution here the solid state ( lots of diodes and transistors)  

rectifier/regulator may not be able to stand switching the alternator on and  

off during normal flight so save turning off the line to the main buss as an  

emergency procedure. 

Noel 

 

 

From:  owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com  

[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  BobsV35B(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:17  PM

To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:  Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator  switch



 

Good  Morning Once Again Ron,

 



 

That  information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the 

problems I  had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the 

controlling  device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has done quite 

 well!

 



 

The  diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I  

went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the  

principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and  

all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine  

points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.  

 



 

Sounds  kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist  

attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile  regulators.

 



 

Thanks  again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more  

information.

 



 

Have  you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or  

regulates the output?

 



 

Is  there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not 

generally a  fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good 

advantage. It  would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics 

if a  battery connection were to fail.

 



 

So  much to be learned!!

 



 

Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22 

 



 

 

In a  message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  

kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:






I learned electronics  many years  ago, while in the military.  I just 

googled "permanent magnet  regulator" and found this  

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description  of how the electricity is 

generated then how it's converted to DC via the  regulator...  Hope it helps

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Ah yes! The vaunted Vicker's Drive.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Do Not  Archive



  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:27:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Nothing with a turbine would    have one!  They also use variable displacement pumps to keep their    alternators turning at a constant speed.   

    

Noel 	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

The regulator case itself should be a heat sink. In this case the regulator actually workd as a transistor controlled voltage divider circuit.  The fuse link protects the battery and as I said I also recommend a switch or better yet a circuit breaker between pin 5 of the regulator and the main buss.  Output is 20 amp continuous I think I would try a 20A breaker and if you start blowing it install a load meter and a 30A breaker.  Under no circumstances though load the alternator past 20A continuous duty  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Harris

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:18 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

   

Bob,  

You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth during the rectification/regulation process.  

It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage protection is worthwile in case the regulator burns out.  

Peter H  

         

  

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 2:47 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

     

Good Morning Once Again Ron,  

    

   

    

That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the controlling device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has done quite well!  

    

   

    

The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.   

    

   

    

Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.  

    

   

    

Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more information.  

    

   

    

Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or regulates the output?  

    

   

    

Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics if a battery connection were to fail.  

    

   

    

So much to be learned!!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL  	
  

  

  

           

  

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

The problem isn’t in shutting down the line to the main buss...  Damage to the regulator can be done when you turn on the alternator to the buss during heavy loads.  If for some reason you want to shut down the output to the buss in flight you should shed all load on the buss before reconnecting the regulator output to the buss.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:54 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Evening Peter,  

    

   

    

Thanks for the information.   

    

   

    

Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is there a common method that has been successful?  

    

   

    

As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully inadequate.  

    

   

    

Are there any good sources of data that I can study?  

    

   

    

If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection such that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be damaged or is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:51:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Bob,  

You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth during the rectification/regulation process.  

It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage protection is worthwhile in case the regulator burns out.  

Peter H  

   	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List 	
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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Printed and stuck in the manual!

  

 Thanks Noel.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:46:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

The regulator case itself    should be a heat sink. In this case the regulator actually workd as a    transistor controlled voltage divider circuit.  The fuse link protects    the battery and as I said I also recommend a switch or better yet a circuit    breaker between pin 5 of the regulator and the main buss.  Output is 20    amp continuous I think I would try a 20A breaker and if you start blowing it    install a load meter and a 30A breaker.  Under no circumstances though    load the alternator past 20A continuous duty   

    

Noel   

 	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Great! Â Have look at the list of revised pages which follows the table of contents.Â  It will give you a list of all the updated and added pages...Â  Saves wear and tear on the printer, paper and cartridges.Â  You may have to make notes of the different pages you will need and print only those pages...Â  The old pages can go in the bottom of the bird cage.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 1:05 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Evening Noel,  

    

   

    

I note that the one you googled is dated as revision 4. My copy is revision 3 and I see that revision 4 shows all new pages!  

    

   

    

I guess I will have to print a whole new manual. I wonder if they really did revise every page or if they just decided to list all of them as new? That's an awful lot of wasted paper!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:21:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

I just googled jabiru Schematic and came up with this: (top of the page!)  

   

www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300HL-IM.pdf  

   

Everything you wanted to know about Jabiru engines and more besides... Check out page 54 for a circuit diagram.  That diagram shows the output to the battery being switched ( Master) and protected by a fuse link.  The feed to the main buss is not switched or protected....  Iâ€™d recommend a breaker of at least the capacity of the alternator.  Funny on page 57 they say to hook up the battery direct...  I donâ€™t htink they looked at their own schematic and thatâ€™s what Iâ€™d go by.  

   

According to page 56 you can put a switch on the red wire that comes from pin #5 on the voltage regulator and then feed the output of that switch to the main buss.  

A word of caution here the solid state ( lots of diodes and transistors) rectifier/regulator may not be able to stand switching the alternator on and off during normal flight so save turning off the line to the main buss as an emergency procedure.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:17 PM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Once Again Ron,  

    

   

    

That information has been very helpful in directing me to some of the problems I had wondered about. Do you have any idea how sophisticated is the controlling device associated with the Jabiru?  Sounds like Evinrude has done quite well!  

    

   

    

The diodes I do understand. They were being discussed as the future when I went through school and I have kept abreast of such development. All of the principles mentioned are still the same as before, full wave rectification and all, but I still do not have good handle on the voltage regulation fine points. It appears as if they just sink excess current.   

    

   

    

Sounds kinda hairy to those of us familiar with power conservationist attitudes.  My training was in the day of carbon pile regulators.  

    

   

    

Thanks again, I now know that I can reference outboard motors for more information.  

    

   

    

Have you found any documentation that is specific to how Jabiru controls or regulates the output?  

    

   

    

Is there any sort of over voltage protection provided? While I am not generally a fan of "Crow Bar" protection. this might be used here to good advantage. It would be a shame to blow several thousand dollars worth of electronics if a battery connection were to fail.  

    

   

    

So much to be learned!!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 10:44:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "KC7HFA" <kc7hfa(at)totalusa.net>

 

 I learned electronics  many years ago, while in the military.  I just googled "permanent magnet regulator" and found this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.html it gives a description of how the electricity is generated then how it's converted to DC via the regulator...  Hope it helps.

 

 --------

 Ron Asbill

 N601ZX - CH-601 XL  	
  

  

  

           

  

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution   st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com 	
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Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Hi Bob,  

My knowledge is a bit patchy. The best source for good info is aeroelectrics list found in the Matronics group or you could Google for Bob Nucholls Aeroelectric Connection. He has a diagram for the crowbar over voltage protection (OV) which disconnects a runaway alternator if the regulator should fail. Then the life of the alternator would depend on the mode of failure. Normally overvoltage goes to earth through the regulator but if the Reg. went OC and with no OV protection then your main bus will be exposed to the unregulated alternator output which goes up to 60VAC   

There is also another alternative circuit which could be used for OV protection and which would allow the alternator to remain connected. Basically this alternative OV circuit is like a supplementary regulator which starts to work if the supply voltage goes above 15V.  

Old Peter  (1938 vintage)  

         

  

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, 23 March 2008 11:24 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

     

Good Evening Peter,  

    

   

    

Thanks for the information.   

    

   

    

Do most Jabiru operators use some sort of over voltage protection? Is there a common method that has been successful?  

    

   

    

As I am sure you can tell, my knowledge in this area is woefully inadequate.  

    

   

    

Are there any good sources of data that I can study?  

    

   

    

If a contactor was opened by a crowbar or other over voltage protection such that it would save the electronics, would the alternator still be damaged or is there some modality that would cause it to reduce it's output?  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 7:51:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time, peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Bob,  

You are right about the excess current it is taken to earth at the base of the regulator which should be mounted on a heat sink panel. AC output from the PM alternator varies with RPM and the excess energy is bled off to earth during the rectification/regulation process.  

It sounds a bit primitive but it is simple and effective. Over voltage protection is worthwhile in case the regulator burns out.  

Peter H  

   	
  

  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List 	
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jetboy

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Bob if I can help explain the type of system used by Jabiru I hope it aids your wiring choice.



Some texts refer to the PMA as a dynamo. The Jabiru assembly is similar to most Japanese and Harley motorcyles- not the old brit bikes that used Lucas -the prince of darkness- electrics.



Early 3300 used a 3-phase stator, which requires a six diode rectifier stack like most automotive "alternators" have. In theory, this is much better for the output filtering because the ripple from a 3 phase is much less than the "on-off" flow from a single phase winding.



Old motorcycles and Rotax 2 strokes used a shunt regulator to limit the output. This was in the form of a selenium pile mounted under the headlight for cooling on the bikes or a triggered diode (SCR) switch module on the rotax. When the output got above 14 volts the shunt device would load the stator windings and the current would be limited by the available magnet strength. the Rotax units had a habbit of failing open circuit leaving 50 volts to burn up whatever I had connected downstream.



You can choose a linear series regulator, Powermate or B+C LR3 come to mind. The limitation on these is that they are, much like a carbon pile, in the line and reduce the current by turning it to heat. The big advantage is the output is much cleaner. If they fail it will usually be short cct and that is not favourable to your avionics, so these normally need or incorporate some overvoltage crowbar. 



Newer motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912  use a series switching regulator. That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied to the yellow 'sense' wire is lower than the internally preset reference voltage, the bridge rectifier is triggered on. this is by activation of the two SCRs that are in the -ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting remains conducting until the end of the AC cycle coming from the stator windings, at this time the SCR remains non conducting unless there is a fresh trigger from the transistors that sense the voltage.



The advantage of this regulator is that no current is dumped to ground, and as it is switching on it does not get hot. It is either on or off. the battery has to absorb the excess of the 'on' pulse which can be a problem if you run without battery connected or with sense wire disconnected. SCRs usually fail 'open cct' so there will be no output hence there is little need for other overvolt protection, so long as the sense wire is ALLWAYS in connection with the output wire.

If you wish to be able to turn off the PMA, I would suggest switching one of the AC stator wires. The Jabiru manual is not very clear here, in 3 places it shows different recommendations. I would follow the text that calls for yellow and red to be joined and connected direct to battery studs, or via a fuse link (this is a bolted fuse element or a short crimped thin wire in the engine bay- you cannot fix a problem of a magnitude that would cause this fuse to blow anyway)



If you wish to use the 'charge fail' lamp facility as depicted in the sample wiring schematic for J250 aircraft, you will then need to disconnect some of the regulator from the battery via the master switch. My option would be to use a double pole master and wire the lamp via the spare pole. This would avoid flat battery whilst preserving the direct regulator-battery connection. Dont blame me if you did it another way and have burnt parts!



Regards, Ralph

telecommunications engineering is my day job

part-time avionics and PT6 instrumentation troubleshooter

CH701 with Jabiru 2200a

and yes I have a turbine and it DOES have a PMA. came off an A7

_________________
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Noel Loveys a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Generators and magnetos are somewhat limited in their capacity to 

 generate electrical power so over voltage is not generally a 

 consideration.




	


Noel and all,



Whereas I would second you on the self limited *current* capacity of 

permanent magnet alternators, I beg to differ on the over *voltage* 

issue : a PM alternator cannot prevent from producing voltage when 

spinning, and if the regulator fails, voltage may climb as up as 80-100 

volts according to model and rpm.

A good battery may temporarily soak the voltage excursion, but those 

values are sufficient to damage any avionics if not taken care of on 

time. So overvoltage protection is worth some consideration if expensive 

avionics is installed.



As mentioned elsewhere, the Aeroelectric website and list provide really 

valuable information and circuit architecture suggestions. The 

experience an knowledge there are hard to beat.



FWIW



Best regards,

-- 

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Morning Noel,

  

 I did look at the list of revised pages and they show ALL pages as having  been revised!

  

 I don't mind the paper so much, but all that ink!

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Do Not  Archive



  

  In a message dated 3/22/2008 11:07:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Great!  Have look at the    list of revised pages which follows the table of contents.  It will give    you a list of all the updated and added pages...  Saves wear and tear on    the printer, paper and cartridges.  You may have to make notes of the    different pages you will need and print only those pages...  The old    pages can go in the bottom of the bird cage.   

    

Noel 	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:08 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Morning Peter, 

  

 I have been monitoring the matronics list for several years  and 'Lectric Bob for at least twenty years. I do have several copies  of the Connection plus it's predecessor from the Down By The Riverside  Press!.

  

 I even attended one of his seminars a year or so ago. 

  

 That is probably why I am so concerned as to how the permanent magnet  alternator can be deactivated so that it will not fry the electronics nor tear  itself apart.  I think I do understand the use of a crow bar to save the  panel, but the runaway alternator has me concerned.

  

 I had no idea there was such a thing available as a permanent magnet  alternator. I guess every time it was mentioned, I disregarded and skipped over  it because I worked only on military and certified aircraft electrical systems.  Never messed with outboards, lawn mowers or snow mobiles.

  

 Thanks for all the help you and others have provided. 

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/23/2008 2:17:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

Hi    Bob,   

My knowledge is a bit    patchy. The best source for good info is aeroelectrics list found in the    Matronics group or you could Google for Bob Nucholls Aeroelectric Connection.    He has a diagram for the crowbar over voltage protection (OV) which    disconnects a runaway alternator if the regulator should fail. Then the life    of the alternator would depend on the mode of failure. Normally overvoltage    goes to earth through the regulator but if the Reg. went OC and with no OV    protection then your main bus will be exposed to the unregulated alternator    output which goes up to 60VAC    

There is also another    alternative circuit which could be used for OV protection and which would    allow the alternator to remain connected. Basically this alternative OV    circuit is like a supplementary regulator which starts to work if the supply    voltage goes above 15V.   

Old Peter  (1938    vintage)   

 	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Morning Ralph,

  

 That helps a lot! 

  

 My learning curve is still on the way up. Your fine explanation has been  printed and added to the manual.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

 Do Not  Archive



  

  In a message dated 3/23/2008 2:56:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  sanson.r(at)xtra.co.nz writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob if I    can help explain the type of system used by Jabiru I hope it aids your wiring    choice.

	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Thanks Ralph:  

   

It’s always good to learn more.  

   

I was under the understanding that the carbon pile actually lowered the voltage when it came into problems.,, Which were generally crystallization of the piles.  

   

I can see the switching one of the stator wires but couldn’t see the advantage of that.  

   

Does your turbine produce 400 Hz three phase??  

   

Noel  

   

   

   

--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Peter H

Joined: 20 Mar 2007
Posts: 197

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Gilles and Ralph,

If the J3300 is fitted with a series switching regulator does this mean that

the alternator AC output is switched on or off the bridge connection and it

would go OC when the battery is fully charged and there is no load dumping

to earth?

Does this mean that the regulator is safe and does not require OV protection

or do we need OV protection for interruption of a heavy DC current on the

busbar side?



Thanks,

Peter H ( I suppose this should be on the aeroelectrics list)

--

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

To be  honest I didn’t look at the list of revised pages... Happy printing...  I hate the cost of cartridges too.  

   

Noel  

       

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobsV35B(at)aol.com

 Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 9:49 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch  

  

  

     

Good Morning Noel,  

    

   

    

I did look at the list of revised pages and they show ALL pages as having been revised!  

    

   

    

I don't mind the paper so much, but all that ink!  

    

   

    

Happy Skies,

 

 Old Bob

 AKA

 Bob Siegfried

 Ancient Aviator

 628 West 86th Street

 Downers Grove, IL 60516

 630 985-8502 

 Stearman N3977A

 Brookeridge Air Park LL22  

    

Do Not Archive  

    

   

      

In a message dated 3/22/2008 11:07:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Great!  Have look at the list of revised pages which follows the table of contents.  It will give you a list of all the updated and added pages...  Saves wear and tear on the printer, paper and cartridges.  You may have to make notes of the different pages you will need and print only those pages...  The old pages can go in the bottom of the bird cage.  

   

Noel  	
  

  



 

         

  

Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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        [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Evening Noel,

  

 All 110 pages have been revised, the bulletins brought up to date, and we  will be heading to Texas tomorrow to help our Granddaughter install the 3300  Jabiru engine in her Quick Built Legend Cub!

  

 Thanks for all the help from everyone. I have learned a lot about permanent  magnet alternators in the last few days.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

 Do Not  Archive

Brookeridge Air Park LL22



  

  In a message dated 3/23/2008 6:45:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     

To be  honest I didnâ€™t    look at the list of revised pages... Happy printing...  I hate the cost    of cartridges too.   

    

Noel 	




Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

lbmathias(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

[quote] ---

lbmathias(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Hey guys,

  

     Try www.inksell.com for good prices  on printer cartridges; they are much cheaper than those you buy in any  store.   They aren't the printer mfgr brand but I have had no problem  for the past couple years I have been using them.

  

                  Linda 

 [quote]   ---

BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Good Evening Peter,

  

 Just a bit of information if you will. What is an SCR? 

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

628 West  86th Street

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630 985-8502 

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

  

  In a message dated 3/23/2008 5:39:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  peterjfharris(at)bigpond.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Newer    motorcycles, Jabiru and i believe Rotax 912  use a series    switching

regulator. That is, when the transistors see the voltage applied    to the

yellow 'sense' wire is lower than the internally preset reference    voltage,

the bridge rectifier is triggered on. this is by activation of the    two SCRs

that are in the -ve legs of the bridge. The SCR that is conducting    remains

conducting until the end of the AC cycle coming from the stator    windings, at

this time the SCR remains non conducting unless there is a    fresh trigger

from the transistors that sense the  voltage.

	






Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

  [quote][b]

jetboy

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Wiring 3300 to an alternator switch

Peter & Noel



If I wanted to disable the alternator I would switch the AC off rather than the rectified and regulated DC. 3 reasons: switching the DC does not isolate your windings from burning up. Switching the DC involves another infirm connection and much longer path to the battery. The rating of the switch required is lower and the AC line is prior to the regulator so any voltage drops are not affecting the output.

The series switching regulator, when up to full voltage on the DC bus, is OC, and the AC available from the PMA is not consumed. The windings stay cool, and there is no load on the engine because the magnets are passing a coil that is not connected anywhere.



If wired in a safe configuration and with a battery or capacitor across the output it should not need any further OV protection. Interrupting a heavy load off the DC bus will not cause the regulator do go OV. Anytime the sense wire is not directly connected to the output, you need another form of protection, because the voltage control loop is open, and like an automotive alternator, full output will be made available to all in its path.



Bob's aerolectric Z20 looks to be a safe method, and has the fusible links to isolate any faulty units from further harm.



Ralph.

PS the turbine with a PMA is a JFS100 APU, the alternator is for 24 volts (at) 4 amps and only uses a rectifier. It gives me no trouble, but the igniter box is another story.....

 	  Peter H wrote: 	
		  Gilles and Ralph,

If the J3300 is fitted with a series switching regulator does this mean that

the alternator AC output is switched on or off the bridge connection and it

would go OC when the battery is fully charged and there is no load dumping

to earth?

Does this mean that the regulator is safe and does not require OV protection

or do we need OV protection for interruption of a heavy DC current on the

busbar side?



Thanks,

Peter H ( I suppose this should be on the aeroelectrics list)

--

_________________
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a

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