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davemcc
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 74
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 Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: rotate |
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Buzz
A while back I believe you mentioned you put weight in the tail of your Esqual. I assume this was for w/b, here is my problem, on take-off I have to be doing 80 mph before she will rotate-even with stick pressure. Prior to the carbon prop it would rotate at 60.
You would think the 30 lbs of BRS in the luggage area would be more than enough weight in the aft locations.
It cruises at 150 indicated at 3000 ft doing 2800 rpm and fly's great. Any ideas on the rotate thing--
thanks Dave McC
[quote][b]
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:35 am Post subject: rotate |
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Dave, Buz's weight and balance is in the spreadsheet I sent out the
other day, did you get it?
Attached for info, you can plug your numbers in to the section on the
right and compare.
I can get the nose wheel up on my Esqual when she's quite slow. BTW the
IVW issued a permit to fly for it on the 31st March! Still need CAA
expemption yet but getting closer to doing more than lift the nosewheel!
Regards, Clive
--
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: rotate |
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Hi Dave,
I hate to say it, but if I were a betting man, I would say your airspeed indicator is in error - reading quite high. My airplane will easily rotate at 35 (or before) and fly off at 40 when I use 10 degrees of flap for TO. But first let me ask a few questions. What is your indicated stall speed both clean and dirty? Have you measured your total up elevator travel? Are your W&B numbers anywhere close to mine?
Yes, I added four pounds of weight to the aft fuselage of my aircraft so that a light weight pilot (make that a pretty lady pilot weighing about 120 pounds) could fly the airplane solo down to 6 gallons total fuel remaining. Before I added the 4 pounds in the aft fuselage in the low area under the fin, the light weight pilot would have to land with about half fuel in order to stay within the allowable range for forward CG.
Based on what you say your stall speeds are (my 30 degree flap stall speed is 34 mph and clean is 44 mph) the other thing that makes me think you airspeed is reading high is the numbers you quote for speed at 3,000 feet and 2800 rpm. You said, "It cruises at 150 indicated at 3000 ft doing 2800 rpm and fly's great." Well that really would be great, but I doubt those numbers based not only on my airplane but the five Lightnings I have flown. Just this morning on a flight to another airport for a meeting I ran my airplane at 3000 feet and at 2800 rpm. It settles out at 145 indicated burning about 4.7 gallons per hour. True airspeed was about 148 or 149. I am still running the 64ZK55 (will switch to the 62FK58 when I get back from SNF.
A few more thoughts (so we don't get into a "my jet is faster than your jet") I have verified my airspeed on several occasions using other certified aircraft and using the wind triangles and several different GPSs. My airspeed (on the EFIS) is dead on (as is the airspeed on the new Demo - 324AL). Have you checked your airspeed with other aircraft in formation or done wind triangles with a GPS? Where is your pitot and static pick up? I seem to remember the Esqual having two "pin hole" static ports on the aft fuselage. I didn't like that because they are so easy to plug with wax or other surface stuff, so I went to the system that the Lightning now uses - below the wing along with the pitot tube. Has someone walked in to your pitot tube and bent it?
Hope some of the above helps - cause you know my jet is faster than your jet. 
Blue Skies,
Buz
Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
[quote][b]
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simon(at)sertech.com.au
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: rotate |
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Hi Buz,
I am a potential Lightning builder from Australia. Are your quoted
performance figures Miles per Hour or Knots (Nautical Miles per Hour). The
Arion web site quotes a cruise speed of 175 mph (152 Knots). Just wondering
what your 145 at 2800rpm is.
Cheers
Simon Wilson
P Please consider the environment before printing this email
_____
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, 4 April 2008 6:22 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: rotate
Hi Dave,
I hate to say it, but if I were a betting man, I would say your airspeed
indicator is in error - reading quite high. My airplane will easily rotate
at 35 (or before) and fly off at 40 when I use 10 degrees of flap for TO.
But first let me ask a few questions. What is your indicated stall speed
both clean and dirty? Have you measured your total up elevator travel? Are
your W&B numbers anywhere close to mine?
Yes, I added four pounds of weight to the aft fuselage of my aircraft so
that a light weight pilot (make that a pretty lady pilot weighing about 120
pounds) could fly the airplane solo down to 6 gallons total fuel remaining.
Before I added the 4 pounds in the aft fuselage in the low area under the
fin, the light weight pilot would have to land with about half fuel in order
to stay within the allowable range for forward CG.
Based on what you say your stall speeds are (my 30 degree flap stall
speed is 34 mph and clean is 44 mph) the other thing that makes me think you
airspeed is reading high is the numbers you quote for speed at 3,000 feet
and 2800 rpm. You said, "It cruises at 150 indicated at 3000 ft doing 2800
rpm and fly's great." Well that really would be great, but I doubt those
numbers based not only on my airplane but the five Lightnings I have flown.
Just this morning on a flight to another airport for a meeting I ran my
airplane at 3000 feet and at 2800 rpm. It settles out at 145 indicated
burning about 4.7 gallons per hour. True airspeed was about 148 or 149. I
am still running the 64ZK55 (will switch to the 62FK58 when I get back from
SNF.
A few more thoughts (so we don't get into a "my jet is faster than your
jet") I have verified my airspeed on several occasions using other certified
aircraft and using the wind triangles and several different GPSs. My
airspeed (on the EFIS) is dead on (as is the airspeed on the new Demo -
324AL). Have you checked your airspeed with other aircraft in formation or
done wind triangles with a GPS? Where is your pitot and static pick up? I
seem to remember the Esqual having two "pin hole" static ports on the aft
fuselage. I didn't like that because they are so easy to plug with wax or
other surface stuff, so I went to the system that the Lightning now uses -
below the wing along with the pitot tube. Has someone walked in to your
pitot tube and bent it?
Hope some of the above helps - cause you know my jet is faster than your
jet.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
<http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016>
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: rotate |
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Simon,
Buz bases his cruise speed by setting a certain fuel flow. Therefore he burns a predictable amount of fuel but the actual speed may go up or down based on winds, altitude, etc. 2800 RPM is just a random setting that gave him this fuel flow on this particular day. 2950 RPM is the max continous RPM and the one that I always used for cruise fllight. Also note that 152 knot cruise speed is based on a lot of variables if you have an experimental aircraft. That is for one that has the carb set right with a good prop and a good pitch to that prop. It is also for one that is built straight and has the gear leg fairings and wheel pants. Also note that Buz has an Esqual. It does have a Lightning firewall forward and wheel pants and gear leg fairings, but is a different airplane with an entirely different wing structure. Even though Buz has probably the fastest Esqual ever built, he'll be the first to tell you that the Lightning is superior in every way and handles much differently. So your results in the Lightning will vary from his observations. The published numbers are what is a possibility. Having said that, the plane can also be built for a max continous cruise speed of 120 knots. That's a big difference! It will do the 152 knot cruise speed though if you build it right and want to build it for speed. Brian W.
From: simon(at)sertech.com.auTo: lightning-list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: Lightning-List: rotateDate: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 18:51:02 +1100
Hi Buz,
I am a potential Lightning builder from Australia. Are your quoted performance figures Miles per Hour or Knots (Nautical Miles per Hour). The Arion web site quotes a cruise speed of 175 mph (152 Knots). Just wondering what your 145 at 2800rpm is.
Cheers
Simon Wilson
P Please consider the environment before printing this email
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.comSent: Friday, 4 April 2008 6:22 AMTo: lightning-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: rotate
Hi Dave,
I hate to say it, but if I were a betting man, I would say your airspeed indicator is in error - reading quite high. My airplane will easily rotate at 35 (or before) and fly off at 40 when I use 10 degrees of flap for TO. But first let me ask a few questions. What is your indicated stall speed both clean and dirty? Have you measured your total up elevator travel? Are your W&B numbers anywhere close to mine?
Yes, I added four pounds of weight to the aft fuselage of my aircraft so that a light weight pilot (make that a pretty lady pilot weighing about 120 pounds) could fly the airplane solo down to 6 gallons total fuel remaining. Before I added the 4 pounds in the aft fuselage in the low area under the fin, the light weight pilot would have to land with about half fuel in order to stay within the allowable range for forward CG.
Based on what you say your stall speeds are (my 30 degree flap stall speed is 34 mph and clean is 44 mph) the other thing that makes me think you airspeed is reading high is the numbers you quote for speed at 3,000 feet and 2800 rpm. You said, "It cruises at 150 indicated at 3000 ft doing 2800 rpm and fly's great." Well that really would be great, but I doubt those numbers based not only on my airplane but the five Lightnings I have flown. Just this morning on a flight to another airport for a meeting I ran my airplane at 3000 feet and at 2800 rpm. It settles out at 145 indicated burning about 4.7 gallons per hour. True airspeed was about 148 or 149. I am still running the 64ZK55 (will switch to the 62FK58 when I get back from SNF
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: rotate |
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In a message dated 4/5/2008 3:56:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, simon(at)sertech.com.au writes:
| Quote: | | Are your quoted performance figures Miles per Hour or Knots (Nautical Miles per Hour). |
Hi Simon,
Miles per hour - makes me think I am going faster. Actually I am one of the "old school" that uses MPH in light aircraft and knots in jets. Just the way I was trained years ago. It is sometimes to get rid of old habits. I don't know what I will do when we switch to the metric compass.
Beautiful day in Lakeland. A beautiful puffy cloud layer at about 3,000 feet, temperature in the low 80s.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
[quote][b]
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