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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
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 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Hi Listers...
This is a bit off topic, but I could use your help. My wife, bless
her heart, has given me a "Fighter Pilot Experience"... "six, g-
pulling dogfights" in a SIAI Marchetti SF260 out of Fullerton
California.
To her, I guess, the fact that I love to fly means that this would be
the ultimate sort of experience. To me, it's not that simple. My
attraction to flight has more to do with getting above all the
congestion down here on a cool clear winter morning and going
somewhere most other people can't go. It's about planning and
executing a good, safe, flight. It's about landing on the numbers.
I've spent some time inverted in a Super Decathalon over the Pacific
Ocean... did a few loops and rolls... and came away a bit airsick
with no urge to ever do that again.
I'm a 250 hour pilot. I haven't flown in six years. My life
insurance policy has a flying exclusion. I'm about 18 months in to
the construction of my RV-10 and imagine I'm looking at about another
3 years before it's ready to fly. I had planned to get current, get
my high performance endorsement and my instrument rating (as well as
a new life insurance policy) as I was finishing up the RV-10.
So, what can you tell me about the SIAI Marchetti SF260? Has anyone
had this "experience," or have any knowledge of these operations?
She's spent nearly $1,000.00 on the gift (a bunch of money for what
can't be more than 2 hours of flying time). I can trade the gift
(and burst my wife's bubble) for three days of sailing lessons down
in San Diego.
Any input is appreciated.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Anytime your wife wants to help with your flying experience, take what
she offers. I got lucky and my wife helps me rivet, because she knows
the 10 will haul allot of stuff back from the mall, so she suffers
through. Many pilots have a Significant other that could care less, so
if your wife is showing an interest and supporting you in your High
Priced hobby, then you should just suck it up, puke and move on, don't
worry about the life insurance because if something happens while you
are on the demo flight your wife will get a good lawyer and sue anyone
who touched that plane or even thought of it....Besides how many of us
would kill for that opp?
Tongue in check of course, but I would recommend you taking the gift and
really making a big deal of it and appreciate she is supporting your
hobby, and at least you can chalk it up to an experience you can talk
about, sailing is so two dimensional, and who wants to puke on a boat?
At least in the air it will float in a dive!
Dan
40269
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Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:56 am Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Maybe you can use the time for a BFR or high-performance checkout, provided the pilot is a CFI . .
TDT
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________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Thu 3/2/2006 2:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: "Fighter Pilot Experience"
Anytime your wife wants to help with your flying experience, take what
she offers. I got lucky and my wife helps me rivet, because she knows
the 10 will haul allot of stuff back from the mall, so she suffers
through. Many pilots have a Significant other that could care less, so
if your wife is showing an interest and supporting you in your High
Priced hobby, then you should just suck it up, puke and move on, don't
worry about the life insurance because if something happens while you
are on the demo flight your wife will get a good lawyer and sue anyone
who touched that plane or even thought of it....Besides how many of us
would kill for that opp?
Tongue in check of course, but I would recommend you taking the gift and
really making a big deal of it and appreciate she is supporting your
hobby, and at least you can chalk it up to an experience you can talk
about, sailing is so two dimensional, and who wants to puke on a boat?
At least in the air it will float in a dive!
Dan
40269
Do not archive
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GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Jeff,
One of the guys in our chapter is an aerobatics pilot and entertainer...does KOSH every year...a while back he was an invited guest at Red Flag...took out a two seat aerobatic plane and did demo's with the USAF instructors etc. Several got sick in the plane, all carry along zip lock big bags...and a bottle of water...they don't think it a problem getting sick as long as you deal with it well...I'd have the same attitude if I were you...take along the zip lock bags, lined with paper towels and a small bottle of water to settle the stomach in case you up chuck...no harm, it can happen to any one at any time.
Luckily she selected the March over a T 34!!! Make sure she's not buying extra insurance on you...LOL
Sounds like nothing but fun...have a ball...but do you have someone you can hitch up a ride in the mean time to get use to a few +/- G's before you go for a ride? Know anyone that owns a C 150 Aerobat/Citabria? I don't think most of these folks want you spilling your guts in their planes...the liquid runs everywhere and your stomach acid is very corrosive to metal. So keeping you stable is important for them also.
What do they say, grunt loudly, hold the stomach muscle tight and keep the blood up in your head and look around. Old fighter pilots before G suits actually would wear a woman's girdle and a tight belt about the waist to keep the blood from sinking into their legs.
I wouldn't eat any thing spicy before going, either. But ready for a cold beer when you return.
Patrick
do not archive
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av8or(at)cox.net
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Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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I don't recommend Indian food the night before, either! : )
TDT
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________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of GRANSCOTT(at)aol.com
Sent: Thu 3/2/2006 3:11 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: "Fighter Pilot Experience"
Jeff,
One of the guys in our chapter is an aerobatics pilot and entertainer...does KOSH every year...a while back he was an invited guest at Red Flag...took out a two seat aerobatic plane and did demo's with the USAF instructors etc. Several got sick in the plane, all carry along zip lock big bags...and a bottle of water...they don't think it a problem getting sick as long as you deal with it well...I'd have the same attitude if I were you...take along the zip lock bags, lined with paper towels and a small bottle of water to settle the stomach in case you up chuck...no harm, it can happen to any one at any time.
Luckily she selected the March over a T 34!!! Make sure she's not buying extra insurance on you...LOL
Sounds like nothing but fun...have a ball...but do you have someone you can hitch up a ride in the mean time to get use to a few +/- G's before you go for a ride? Know anyone that owns a C 150 Aerobat/Citabria? I don't think most of these folks want you spilling your guts in their planes...the liquid runs everywhere and your stomach acid is very corrosive to metal. So keeping you stable is important for them also.
What do they say, grunt loudly, hold the stomach muscle tight and keep the blood up in your head and look around. Old fighter pilots before G suits actually would wear a woman's girdle and a tight belt about the waist to keep the blood from sinking into their legs.
I wouldn't eat any thing spicy before going, either. But ready for a cold beer when you return.
Patrick
do not archive
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Jerry Grimmonpre'
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Jeff ...
You are blessed with a wife who has the enthusiasm to get you this gift.
It's now time for salesmanship. Convert this offer into something more
beneficial ... such as a few hours of flight training/motivation in the
RV-10 at Van's. This will convert a consumable extravagant gift into
something that will save $ and facilitate your flying the 10 when completed.
Explain it to be mandatory to get some check-out time for insurance purposes
.. no stretch there. Also it's
"a flight for motivation" if spent on the 10 at Van's. You and wife will
have an opportunity to get a nice tour through the factory. It will give
your wife the chance to fly in the 10 while you are training, if this is
allowed. Maybe she could come along as a video person to tape the follow-on
motivation movie, to be shown during your build time .... sell, sell, sell.
Your wife will probably enjoy the gift as much as you do.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A Electrical
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jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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I'd second this one. Not as many puke bags to fill either. My cousin is
an F-15 pilot, but before he got there, he got a chance to be in a mock
dogfight and he said it was the most stressful physical exercise he had
done in his life just to stay conscious. I'd take the -10.
Jesse
do not archive
| Quote: |
Jeff ...
You are blessed with a wife who has the enthusiasm to get you this gift.
It's now time for salesmanship. Convert this offer into something more
beneficial ... such as a few hours of flight training/motivation in the
RV-10 at Van's. This will convert a consumable extravagant gift into
something that will save $ and facilitate your flying the 10 when
completed.
Explain it to be mandatory to get some check-out time for insurance
purposes
... no stretch there. Also it's
"a flight for motivation" if spent on the 10 at Van's. You and wife will
have an opportunity to get a nice tour through the factory. It will give
your wife the chance to fly in the 10 while you are training, if this is
allowed. Maybe she could come along as a video person to tape the
follow-on
motivation movie, to be shown during your build time .... sell, sell,
sell.
Your wife will probably enjoy the gift as much as you do.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A Electrical
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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No no no... don't take the RV-10 time. Trust me, the RV-10 is great
fun to fly, but it isn't an aerobatic fighter pilot experience.
That kind of opportunity doesn't come up everyday, and in a few years
you'll be flying your RV-10 until it's commonplace. Life is about
the memories you build as you go along. The RV-10 will bring you many
after you fly it. Fly the factory one for transition training just
before you fly and get current.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:
[quote]
Jeff ...
You are blessed with a wife who has the enthusiasm to get you this gift.
It's now time for salesmanship. Convert this offer into something more
beneficial ... such as a few hours of flight training/motivation in the
RV-10 at Van's. This will convert a consumable extravagant gift into
something that will save $ and facilitate your flying the 10 when
completed. Explain it to be mandatory to get some check-out time for
insurance purposes ... no stretch there. Also it's
"a flight for motivation" if spent on the 10 at Van's. You and wife
will have an opportunity to get a nice tour through the factory. It
will give your wife the chance to fly in the 10 while you are training,
if this is allowed. Maybe she could come along as a video person to
tape the follow-on motivation movie, to be shown during your build time
.... sell, sell, sell.
Your wife will probably enjoy the gift as much as you do.
Regards ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A Electrical
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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Thanks Jesse and Jerry, but unfortunately I don't have that option.
They've got the money. They're keeping it. My only choice is to
exchange it for another experience of equal or lessor value... and
that pretty much leaves me with the dog fight, 3 days of sailing
lessons or a day for the family in a hot air balloon.
On Mar 2, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Jesse Saint wrote:
| Quote: |
I'd second this one. Not as many puke bags to fill either. My
cousin is
an F-15 pilot, but before he got there, he got a chance to be in a
mock
dogfight and he said it was the most stressful physical exercise he
had
done in his life just to stay conscious. I'd take the -10.
Jesse
do not archive
>
>
> Jeff ...
> You are blessed with a wife who has the enthusiasm to get you this
> gift.
> It's now time for salesmanship. Convert this offer into something
> more
> beneficial ... such as a few hours of flight training/motivation
> in the
> RV-10 at Van's. This will convert a consumable extravagant gift into
> something that will save $ and facilitate your flying the 10 when
> completed.
> Explain it to be mandatory to get some check-out time for insurance
> purposes
> ... no stretch there. Also it's
> "a flight for motivation" if spent on the 10 at Van's. You and
> wife will
> have an opportunity to get a nice tour through the factory. It
> will give
> your wife the chance to fly in the 10 while you are training, if
> this is
> allowed. Maybe she could come along as a video person to tape the
> follow-on
> motivation movie, to be shown during your build time .... sell,
> sell,
> sell.
> Your wife will probably enjoy the gift as much as you do.
> Regards ...
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
> RV8A Electrical
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nyterminat(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Jeff
Well it looks like no one has done this ,so I will answer your question. My wife also bought me this experience many years ago($495.00 then). I highly recommend doing it. It was a blast and there is no way you are pulling 6 g's. The flight is probably only about 45 min. long. There is a mission briefing and suit up before flying which probably is close to an hour. We went out with 3 planes, two in a dogfight at a time. The 3rd plane observes or as I did, some barrel rolls until one of the plane loses and then you engage with the victor. Not sure if they still do it that way but that's how it was with me. You usually don't get sick when you are in control. You can be as aggressive as you can handle, You are flying the plane. Suck it up,go for it and shoot someone down.
There is a video that is included that captures you in the plane, the forward view ( great when you see the smoke coming from your opponent) and another view that I can't remember. Just a note of precaution, if you have kids at home make sure they don't use the tape to record a TV show. Don't ask how I know 
Bob Spudis
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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Jeff,
I have a slightly different spin on you situation, but first you should
definitely treat your wife like royalty and feel blessed she supports your
flying so much. My background is mostly fighters and after instructing the
F-16, F-117, F/A-18 and AT-38C and doing a little acro competition in my
Skybolt am a little skewed toward recommending GO FOR IT! Besides my bias
towards getting to do some dogfighting, I'll offer this. Realize these guys
are in it for the business and if all they did was get people sick all the
time instead of creating a great and memorable experience, they wouldn't
last too long. Also keep in mind there are a lot of people that do this
with no flying experience at all.
Dogfighting is different from aerobatics in that, while you are definitely
max performing the airplane and the feel of the G will be challenging, it is
not (usually) the tumbling, twisting motion of aerobatics that really messes
people up. I have taken a LOT of people for incentive flights over the
years and often done the type of maneuvering you will experience without
them getting sick. It obviously does happen, but as in the other posts - so
what. More often than not, you'll feel better and be ready to continue
after a brief delay.
Finally, I think the experience would be extremely valuable in gaining
confidence as a pilot. You will have an opportunity to see the world from a
whole different perspective (a great one) and realize how well you can
recover an airplane from bizarre situations if you keep your wits about you
and learn to fly the airplane up to, but within, it's limits. One of the
smartest things I did learning to fly a zillion years ago was talk my
instructor into teaching me to spin after I scared myself silly accidentally
entering one following a bad accelerated stall on my first local area solo
in a Cessna 150. I'll truly end this with I'd recommend taking a long look
at turning your back on your wife's generosity, it might not happen again 
Sorry for the long rant and have fun,
Marcus
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LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Hi Jeff,
From what I've seen of the Fullerton operation, it looks well run. For example, they avoid confrontations with GA and experimental aircraft.
The SF260 isn't quite the 6 G machine they indicate. It has a fairly high wing loading, and appears to bleed speed quickly in a tight turn.
They actually perform fairly well. Only slightly slower with a lower climb rate than an O-290 powered RV-3 (that was based in Corona and later in Long Beach, CA.). 
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 03/02/2006 11:07:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, jeff(at)westcottpress.com writes:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>
Hi Listers...
This is a bit off topic, but I could use your help. My wife, bless
her heart, has given me a "Fighter Pilot Experience"... "six, g-
pulling dogfights" in a SIAI Marchetti SF260 out of Fullerton
California.
(Stuff Cut)
Any input is appreciated.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
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bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Trying to be short on words and long on advice, do every thing in your power
to show appreciation for the treasure that she has given you. Fly the
flight, enjoy the heck out of it, love and cherish your wife, and build the
10.
Bob K
40125
N104BK
Ex fighter pilot
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LIKE2LOOP(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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In a message dated 3/2/06 2:44:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, LloydDR(at)wernerco.com writes:
| Quote: | | I would recommend you taking the gift and really making a big deal of it and appreciate she is supporting your hobby, |
That says it all. WOW, what a great wife. If you are still not happy, i will take your wife, and the gift certificate and you can have my wife that hates planes and calls it "that thing", and has only been in our C-170 2 times in 3 years!!!!
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redflyer(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Jeff.
Only if she likes sailing. Otherwise spend $500 on a getaway with a spa and
$500 on parts for your -10.
Dave
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Jeff Carpenter wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi Listers...
This is a bit off topic, but I could use your help. My wife, bless
her heart, has given me a "Fighter Pilot Experience"... "six, g-
pulling dogfights" in a SIAI Marchetti SF260 out of Fullerton
California.
|
Sounds like she's a keeper!
| Quote: | To her, I guess, the fact that I love to fly means that this would be
the ultimate sort of experience. To me, it's not that simple. My
attraction to flight has more to do with getting above all the
congestion down here on a cool clear winter morning and going
somewhere most other people can't go. It's about planning and
executing a good, safe, flight. It's about landing on the numbers.
I've spent some time inverted in a Super Decathalon over the Pacific
Ocean... did a few loops and rolls... and came away a bit airsick
with no urge to ever do that again.
|
Well, lemme tell ya up front ..... I'm addicted to aerobatics, and so
I'm a little biased here. Think about your Decathlon ride. Who did all
the aerobatic flying .... you or the 'other guy'???? I'll be honest
here: If I'm a 'passenger' while someone else does the akro ..... I get
downright uncomfortable. Give me the reins though and it's a different
story.
| Quote: | I'm a 250 hour pilot. I haven't flown in six years. My life
insurance policy has a flying exclusion. I'm about 18 months in to
the construction of my RV-10 and imagine I'm looking at about another
3 years before it's ready to fly. I had planned to get current, get
my high performance endorsement and my instrument rating (as well as
a new life insurance policy) as I was finishing up the RV-10.
|
The 'other guy' on your proposed flight is probably ex-military with
loads of experience pulling hard Gs in a G suit. Your insurance and
your low hours won't be a problem.
| Quote: | So, what can you tell me about the SIAI Marchetti SF260?
|
It's a great airplane for exploring the nether regions of the flight
envelope.
| Quote: | Has anyone had this "experience," or have any knowledge of these
operations?
|
No experience, but some knowledge. You'll spend some time in a ground
school going over the fundamentals of aerial combat. Position is
everything. I love to 'dogfight'. It's exhilarating ..... but
frustrating when I'm up against a superior pilot and/or airplane! When
you're in the dogfight mode, you're concentrating so much on getting
behind the other airplane that I( doubt you'll have a problem with being
airsick.
| Quote: | She's spent nearly $1,000.00 on the gift (a bunch of money for
what can't be more than 2 hours of flying time). I can trade the
gift (and burst my wife's bubble) for three days of sailing lessons
down in San Diego.
|
Well, there's lots of things you can do with that grand. Buy stuff for
the -10 maybe. But, you'll do that anyway. From my comfortable chair,
I see that you have a couple of choices: You can talk it over with your
wife. I doubt if it'll burst her bubble is you tell her that a whole
bunch of guys on the list would love to take your place (in the combat
arena, of course!!!), but it's not for you. You can trade it in on a
very relaxing sailing experience ...... or you can bite the bullet and
go learn what our fighter pilots go through (or wish they could) when
they're up there fighting for their butt (and us too) .... and along the
way gather some experience that many of those holding a PPL never will.
Me?? I'd go for the combat ride .... but I told you, I'm biased.
Linn
| Quote: | Any input is appreciated.
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I suspect you'll get plenty of input. Jealous, all of them!!! 
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armywrights(at)adelphia.n
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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My wife says this is a bad idea. The purpose of the gift was to show her
love and do something purely for your enjoyment. We do the logical stuff
all the time -- enjoy this awesome gift for what it is! Let her see you
smiling when you get in the plane, smiling when you exit the plane, and hide
the bag of processed bananas when you get out!
Rob
#392
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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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Take your wife with you as the "Backseat Ballast" with Mike Seager for
two days of transition training in an actual RV-10. It will help in the
build process, you can call it an investment. It will give you both
just as big of a thrill and with luck, he can use N410RV instead of
N220RV - thereby giving you the same 260hp kick.
John - KUAO
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acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: "Fighter Pilot Experience" |
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“One mans meat is another mans poison”
John 40315
Do not archive.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Sent: Friday, 3 March 2006 1:11 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: "Fighter Pilot Experience"
In a message dated 3/2/06 2:44:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, LloydDR(at)wernerco.com writes:
| Quote: |
I would recommend you taking the gift and really making a big deal of it and appreciate she is supporting your hobby, |
That says it all. WOW, what a great wife. If you are still not happy, i will take your wife, and the gift certificate and you can have my wife that hates planes and calls it "that thing", and has only been in our C-170 2 times in 3 years!!!!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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