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tail feathers

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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: tail feathers

How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? Mine seem a bit slack. The plan got flipped in a storm, so I may not be looking at the right parts- I don't have another Kolb around to compare with.

   

                                                Bill Sullivan

                                                FS/KX/447

                                                 Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Re: tail feathers

 	  williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote: 	
		  How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? 



<<<<SNIP>>>>.

   

                                                Bill Sullivan

                                                FS/KX/447

                                                Windsor Locks, Ct.

	




Almost tight enough for Travis Brown to strum a rendition of "My Old Kentucky Home" like it was a "banjer".



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: tail feathers

I turned the stainless steel brackets on the lower bolt on the vertical stabilizer so that they came off the "bottom" of the bolt, and everything tightened right up. They almost feel like they were made that way. I would have made them to come off the "top" of the bolt. How are they supposed to mount?

   

                                                  Bill Sullivan

                                                  FS/KX/447

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: tail feathers

Bill,



  There was a discussion about a year ago regarding how tight you should have your tail wires.

First of all...great, if you have them installed correctly.  But, beyond just that, like George said, they need to be very tight (you should be able to "strum" them)!

 

  Evidently, some Kolbers have found that "less than tight tail wires" allow the plane to have way too much "play" in the flight controls.  Aim for the "tightest" setting you can manage by hand.



Mike Welch

MkIII (receiving Poly Fiber)





________________________________



Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:02:12 -0700

From: williamtsullivan(at)att.net

Subject: tail feathers

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

  How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? Mine seem a bit slack. The plan got flipped in a storm, so I may not be looking at the right parts- I don't have another Kolb around to compare with.



                                              Bill Sullivan



                                              FS/KX/447



                                              Windsor Locks, Ct.





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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: tail feathers

Now I just have to figure out what is wrong. Remember- the plane got flipped over, so something is not right.

   

  do not archive

                                                     Bill Sullivan

                                                     FS/KX/447

                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                     

 [quote][b]

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Re: tail feathers

I asked Homer about that once. He said the wires should be tight enough that you can just barely tighten the wingnut on the bottom bolt by hand.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

beauford173(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: tail feathers

Brother Sullivan:

 If I understand you correctly, you pivoted the  stainless brackets around the lower bolt...the one at the bottom of the vertical  stab... so that they point downward, thus gaining  additional tension on the cable...   

  

 I would suggest you might not want to do this...  the primary reason being that the friction on the bolt head is all that would  prevent the bracket from gradually yielding to the cable tension and  pivoting back around toward the 12 o'clock position...    I  believe any inspector would consider this be an unairworthy condition which  would slacken the cable to a dangerous extent....it does not take much slack in  the tail cable to ruin a person's day.... .

  

 If the tail cable will not tighten up  sufficiently  to "thrum" a nice "middle G" note, something else is going  on... the cable crimp ferrules are slipping, something is installed backwards,  or something could be bent.  The brackets at the top of the stab should  point down and the ones at the bottom bolt should point up.  I highly  recommend you not attempt flight with the machine until you have resolved this  issue and have a nice tight cable IAW the Kolb plans, not by misaligning the  brackets.

  

 ...worth what ye paid fer it...

  

 Beauford, the aluminum butcher of Brandon,  FL

 FF 076

 [quote]   ---

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: tail feathers

Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the roll-over. I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful re-bending.

    Thanks.

   

  do not archive

                                               Bill Sullivan

                                               FS/KX/447

                                                Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

1planeguy(at)kilocharlie.
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: tail feathers

william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the 

 roll-over. I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful 

 re-bending.

   Thanks.

  

 do not archive

  

Be careful of the "careful re-bending".  If you are referring to the 
	


little stainless tangs that have one hole on one end and 4 staggered 

holes on the other that facilitate adjustment they are not very fond of 

being rebent.  RANS put out an AD about these tangs having some failures 

from being improperly bent or abused (some folks think those cables are 

a convenient handle to pull on to move the plane around).  Bent and 

set-up like the Kolb plans say they will last a long time, if they are 

bent and rebent they tend to break across the 4 hole end.



I've attached the RANS AD to this email as they use the same part (not 

sure who actually makes them) so you guys can look at it.  Just for 

information, me and the local guys pulled the cables off of 3 different 

planes and inspected with the 10X scope like the AD said and did find 1 

tang that was almost completely cracked.  These were RANS planes but 

like I said they are the same part (by all appearances) and the Kolb 

with 1 set of wires instead of 2 would be less tolerant of a failure.  

Pulling the bolt and a clean and examine with a magnifying scope sure 

doesn't take long to be safe...

Jeremy Casey

AD-135.PDF

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Download

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AD-135.PDF

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: tail feathers

At 01:20 PM 4/15/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the roll-over. 

I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful re-bending.


	


Others have pointed out the danger of re-bending... and besides, any bend 

out of shape would probably make them tighter, not looser.  If there was 

that much stress the cables themselves may be stretched, and/or the 

thimbles elongated... you might want to consider replacing the cables _and_ 

tangs, it's fairly simple and inexpensive to do.



-Dana

--

  Friends help you move.  *Real* friends help you move bodies.

DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: tail feathers

In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:23:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the    roll-over. I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful    re-bending.

     Thanks.

    

   do not archive

	


 

                        Bill,

  

     I dont mean to be an alarmist but I would not be willing  to fly with a stainless tail wire bracket that was bent 45* one way and then 45*  the other. I dont know how much yours have been bent, but stainless steel work  hardens quite rapidly when it is bent and reverse bent. If you make up a new set  of tail wires you will be able to install the adjustable stainless tangs and get  the tension just where you want it.  The choice is obviously Yours.   Just something you might want to consider.

  

                  Good luck with your project!

  

                     Ed Diebel  ( FF # 62)



It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.

  [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: Re: tail feathers

I would not fly with a Rebent tang.  I had seen and was going to post the same AD that jeremy was talking about on the RANS airplanes, but he beat me to it.   The AD on the rans planes are for the same tangs our Kolbs use.



A Rans has two tail wires, you would probably live if one broke, but Rans has still seen fit to send out an AD for this.   A Kolb has one set of wires on the tail, if one breaks you will die.   I think all Kolbs should do the inspection for cracks in the tangs as outlined in the AD from Rans.   



Flying with rebent tangs is just asking to die, you might as well put a gun to your head and pull the trigger.  Its that serious.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: tail feathers

williamtsullivan(at)att.n 	  Quote: 	
		   How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? Mine seem a bit slack. The plan got flipped in a storm, so I may not be looking at the right parts- I don't have another Kolb around to compare with.

   

Bill Sullivan

FS/KX/447

Windsor Locks, Ct.

 	




I know that if the tail wires aren't tight enough, the tang will wear through the thimble prematurely. Once they reach the cable, you know what might happen. In the early days I used the wingnut to tighten the wires and they were too loose. I replaced the wires and now use a locknut and socket wrench to tighten (I set up every time). I wouldn't fly a plane that had the tangs bent once then bent in another direction or re-bent.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: tail feathers

Just to make the AD very clear,  they are saying to check the tangs for CRACKS, not wear.  I would check the bend itself for cracks while looking at the tang, but the AD is saying to check around the bolt holes for cracks where there is less material and the tang is being loaded in bend.  If you tighten the tail wires to tight, it can cause these cracks form as per this AD.  You need to get the wire tension tight, but not to tight either...  To tight can be even more dangerous than not tight enough due to cracks and sudden failure.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: tail feathers

The tail wires have a single function and purpose. They hold the vertical and horizontal stabilizers in constant relative position, so that don't flap like bird wings. The wires should be tight enough to perform this function without any wobble and no tighter, for reasons already expressed by others.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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