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crooks at Performance Engines

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larry(at)ncproto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no joy.  Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this go J.

 _________________

 Larry E. James 

 Bellevue, WA 

 Super Decathlon 

 Rocket (under construction)  

       [quote][b]

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

On 30 Apr 2008, at 17:34, Larry James wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Well, it's time I go public. Ron Munson / Performance Engines has owed me and promised to pay me back my $20,000 deposit for over two years now. I read Matt Throckmorton's account of his dealings with Mike Moore and mine is a very similar story. Bottom line here, no matter how you slice it Ron Munson is a liar and a cheat and should be in jail; let alone receive any orders from any of us or anyone else. His "salesman" Stuart Featherstone falls into the same category. I've tried being nice talking with him, I've had an attorney send nice letters, I've had an attorney send threatening letters, I've had a collections agency work to get my money back. So far, no joy.  Apparently Ron Munson has moved his banking to Nevada while maintaining operations in California; making it more difficult and expensive to go after him. Anyone with any ideas on what to do with this crook ?? I have no intention of letting this go J.

_________________

	




Well, at this stage, maybe the best bet is to attempt to get enough web coverage of your problems that he starts to realize that not resolving this will cost him a bunch of business.  One approach would be to create a web page that gave your side of the story.  Post a link here.  Post a link on the VAF WWW forum.  If enough other people link to your web page, that will start to increase the Google ranking of your page.  Eventually it could start to appear close enough to the top of a search for Performance Engines that prospective customers start to see it.  Try to get the attention of AvWeb, and the Aero News Network.   Contact the Better Business Bureau.  They probably can't do much, but they will put an entry in their searchable database saying that there are unresolved customer complaints.  That will deter some other potential customers.   Go to OSH, with a whole stack of flyers telling your story, and post them all over the site.  Keep this up long enough and eventually they may see an affect on their business.



 --

Kevin Horton

RV-8 (FInal Assembly)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8



 



 [quote][b]

jfogarty(at)tds.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

We need a list on this site of preferred vendors  and vendors we should not deal with and that list should be on the search page  for all RV's.  I'm wondering if this is possible?   We work hard  everyday in the shop and at our day job, and we certainly should know who  the crooks are!  Just my two cents.

  

 Jim 

 RV9a N492RV (building)

 [quote]   ---

larry(at)ncproto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

 	  Quote: 	
		  >Larry,  

>   

>First let me say that I Purchased my engine from the fine folks at Mattatuck. That said I don't have a dog in >>this hunt in any way. Judging from your post you have just taken this public although there is not much detail. >>There is usually 2 sides to every story so I don't have any ability to evaluate your claim.   

>   

>I think before reasonable folks make judgments about the credibility of either side we should have some facts. >>Otherwise there are courts to sort out such disputes based on documented facts and not on emotion.  

>   

>All the best, I hope you are able to get satisfactory resolution. In the mean time lets not all rush to >>judgment.  

>   

>Ralph Hoover  

   
	


Hi Ralph,  

Here are some more details:  

I own / run a small business and see a lot of things run by my desk.  I run a high-end machine shop with all multi-axis machines making orthopedic implants, medical devices, aircraft parts, and the like.  The success of my business is largely based on old fashioned principles: honesty, quality, and expertise.  

   

The short story on goes like this: I decided to go with Performance Engines for a “hot rod” IO-540 for my Rocket.  They asked for a $20,000 deposit and promised delivery in 90 days – all in a written contract (by email and fax).  The 90 days came and went, I wasn’t worried; another couple of months went by, I still wasn’t too worried.  After 9 months went by and still no engine I was worried.  We had been talking during this time and there were “reasons” for the delay (for example, they were unable to secure a Barrett cold-air-induction sump).  Then a friend of mine (based at my home airport) visited Performance Engines looking for another engine builder for his Reno racer; and found that while Performance advertises and talks up their dyno data and experience; they have no dyno.  Given this and the fact that they were over 6 months late in delivering my engine I decided to pull the plug; I cancelled my order and asked for my deposit back.  Ron agreed but asked for a little time to pull together the $20,000.  Again I wasn’t too worried and agreed to 2 months.  This time came and went with no money.  Long story short, after 2 years, over 50 phone calls, many promises, many broken promises, and the involvement of an attorney; I had received around $8,000 of my deposit returned.  During this time my secretary kept a phone log and the number of calls and emails that went un-returned is staggering; as well as the number of times we were promised “$4,000 by the end of next week” only to receive $1500 2-1/2 weeks later.  As a last resort I let a collections agency try; and after they had worked their normal process, they came back and said that Ron had shown himself to be fairly adept at circumventing debt; among the tactics are banking in Nevada while conducting operations in California and having his bookkeeper stonewall.  These folks said the only way to go further would be for me to pay the up-front costs of a lawsuit.  I’m taking this to mean “more good money after bad” so I’m very reticent to make this investment (most likely not an investment at all).  That’s pretty much the story.  

   

It has been my experience that it is not that hard to “do the right thing” and keep my nose clean.  There is a very rare customer that is difficult to please, but they are rare.  Even more rare (but do exist) is the “impossible to please” customer.  It happens.  But even then, it is fairly easy to walk away clean.  My dealings with Ron at Performance has been anything but clean.  

   

I was quite reticent to go public with this and your response is exactly why.  If I read someone making a claim like this I would naturally ask myself what part this “wronged person” had played to cause this breakdown.  In throwing this mud it seems there is no escaping some of it sticking to me.  And I didn’t like this prospect.  But in the end I didn’t like the prospect of Ron Munson getting away with my (now) $12,000 even more.  And in truth I cannot find myself carrying any fault – the case is very simple and straight forward: I paid a deposit for an engine; the engine was never delivered; it was acknowledged the deposit was to be returned; the deposit was not returned; done; black and white.  The only reasonable conclusion is that Performance Engines, Ron Munson, and Stuart Featherstone are crooks.  

   

I have received some very nice and encouraging emails off-line; thank you to all of you J  If anyone else has ideas on how I can get my money back I’d love to hear from them.  

Larry E. James  

Bellevue, WA  

Super Decathlon  

Rocket under construction  

   

   

       [quote][b]

hooverra(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

Larry,  

            Thanks for the reply. Let me again recommend Mattituck!!   

            One remedy is to warn others and provide feedback good and bad. It may not get your deposit back but it could warn off others that could be taken by a crook. It sounds like Ron is perfecting his bad practice and not just caught short for a moment. You are probably not the first or last.   

            Good luck, unfortunately for $12,000 money spent on lawyers probably would only net you more grief and aggravation. Just spread the word. It’s probably easier to recover working at what you love than fighting with the crooks. Let us know if he makes good on the refund or not, a periodic note may just influence someone else’s decision on engines.   

Regards  

   

Ralph  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry James

 Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:27 PM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: crooks at Performance Engines  

  

   

 	  Quote: 	
		  >Larry,  

>   

>First let me say that I Purchased my engine from the fine folks at Mattatuck. That said I don't have a dog in >>this hunt in any way. Judging from your post you have just taken this public although there is not much detail. >>There is usually 2 sides to every story so I don't have any ability to evaluate your claim.   

>   

>I think before reasonable folks make judgments about the credibility of either side we should have some facts. >>Otherwise there are courts to sort out such disputes based on documented facts and not on emotion.  

>   

>All the best, I hope you are able to get satisfactory resolution. In the mean time lets not all rush to >>judgment.  

>   

>Ralph Hoover  

   
	


Hi Ralph,  

Here are some more details:  

I own / run a small business and see a lot of things run by my desk.  I run a high-end machine shop with all multi-axis machines making orthopedic implants, medical devices, aircraft parts, and the like.  The success of my business is largely based on old fashioned principles: honesty, quality, and expertise.  

   

The short story on goes like this: I decided to go with Performance Engines for a “hot rod” IO-540 for my Rocket.  They asked for a $20,000 deposit and promised delivery in 90 days – all in a written contract (by email and fax).  The 90 days came and went, I wasn’t worried; another couple of months went by, I still wasn’t too worried.  After 9 months went by and still no engine I was worried.  We had been talking during this time and there were “reasons” for the delay (for example, they were unable to secure a Barrett cold-air-induction sump).  Then a friend of mine (based at my home airport) visited Performance Engines looking for another engine builder for his Reno racer; and found that while Performance advertises and talks up their dyno data and experience; they have no dyno.  Given this and the fact that they were over 6 months late in delivering my engine I decided to pull the plug; I cancelled my order and asked for my deposit back.  Ron agreed but asked for a little time to pull together the $20,000.  Again I wasn’t too worried and agreed to 2 months.  This time came and went with no money.  Long story short, after 2 years, over 50 phone calls, many promises, many broken promises, and the involvement of an attorney; I had received around $8,000 of my deposit returned.  During this time my secretary kept a phone log and the number of calls and emails that went un-returned is staggering; as well as the number of times we were promised “$4,000 by the end of next week” only to receive $1500 2-1/2 weeks later.  As a last resort I let a collections agency try; and after they had worked their normal process, they came back and said that Ron had shown himself to be fairly adept at circumventing debt; among the tactics are banking in Nevada while conducting operations in California and having his bookkeeper stonewall.  These folks said the only way to go further would be for me to pay the up-front costs of a lawsuit.  I’m taking this to mean “more good money after bad” so I’m very reticent to make this investment (most likely not an investment at all).  That’s pretty much the story.  

   

It has been my experience that it is not that hard to “do the right thing” and keep my nose clean.  There is a very rare customer that is difficult to please, but they are rare.  Even more rare (but do exist) is the “impossible to please” customer.  It happens.  But even then, it is fairly easy to walk away clean.  My dealings with Ron at Performance has been anything but clean.  

   

I was quite reticent to go public with this and your response is exactly why.  If I read someone making a claim like this I would naturally ask myself what part this “wronged person” had played to cause this breakdown.  In throwing this mud it seems there is no escaping some of it sticking to me.  And I didn’t like this prospect.  But in the end I didn’t like the prospect of Ron Munson getting away with my (now) $12,000 even more.  And in truth I cannot find myself carrying any fault – the case is very simple and straight forward: I paid a deposit for an engine; the engine was never delivered; it was acknowledged the deposit was to be returned; the deposit was not returned; done; black and white.  The only reasonable conclusion is that Performance Engines, Ron Munson, and Stuart Featherstone are crooks.  

   

I have received some very nice and encouraging emails off-line; thank you to all of you J  If anyone else has ideas on how I can get my money back I’d love to hear from them.  

Larry E. James  

Bellevue,  WA  

Super Decathlon  

Rocket under construction  

   

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rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

Go to small claims you can get another 7~8k and then immediately go to the marshals office and have the companies income garnished, meanig having a marshall sit there unitl you get your money. 

 

 

Scott B

 



 ---

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Re: crooks at Performance Engines

Sorry to hear about your situation. I had a similar situation (not aviation related) about 6 years ago. Went through all your going through, then went to court and won a $22,000 judgment. Unfortunately, a judgment against them means little to people like that. In all over 6 years I've received $3000 and been back to court 5 times. In my opinion, exposing him as you're doing and impacting his business is the best and probably the only way to really get his attention.

Jerry Cochran

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Crooks at Performance Engines

Just another lesson in sending large sums to small businesses before  delivery of product. It is common that these small vendors use your money to  stay afloat and then hope more $$$ comes in to fill your order. Of course this  is a terrible business practice, and puts you and them at risk, but happens  anyway. Using escrow is one answer, and if they refuse escrow, that tells  you the story. 

  

 One prominent builder has said online that he doesn't have a pile of money  available if someone wants a deposit returned, because it's already spent...  maybe on his salary...

  

 This is not to excuse in any way the practices of Performance  Engines...

  

 My Two Bits,

  

 Jerry Cochran

 RV-6a N18XP

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 5/6/2008 12:02:26 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  rv-list(at)matronics.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Subject:    Re: crooks at Performance Engines

From: "steveadams"    <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com>

Sorry to hear about your    situation. I had a similar situation (not aviation related)

about 6 years    ago. Went through all your going through, then went to court

and won a    $22,000 judgment. Unfortunately, a judgment against them means little

to    people like that. In all over 6 years I've received $3000 and been back

to    court 5 times. In my opinion, exposing him as you're doing and    impacting

his business is the best and probably the only way to really get    his attention.

Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181305#181305 	


 

  



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

bmeyette

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Cornish, NH

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences with various vendors.  The vast majority have been super to deal with, but here have been some with poor customer service.  Fortunately, none has outright ripped me off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are mostly just poor customer service & bad attitudes.   It isn’t an all-encompassing list; just my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in building my plane.  

Brian  

http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm  

   

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty

 Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: crooks at Performance Engines  

  

     

We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and vendors we should not deal with and that list should be on the search page for all RV's.  I'm wondering if this is possible?   We work hard everyday in the shop and at our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks are!  Just my two cents.  

    

   

    

Jim   

    

RV9a N492RV (building)  

  [quote]    

---

_________________
Brian Meyette, Cornish, NH

RV-7A QB tipup, supercharged Subaru STi engine, MT CS prop, all glass day/night/IFR panel, being built with solar and wind power

N432MM

http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm

jfogarty(at)tds.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

Brian,  Thanks for this information, I have  been on your site many times over the last 3 years and appreciate what you have  done to help me and other builders in this process.  I still use the  information you sent three years ago, regarding my question on how  much we should torque down nuts and bolts.  At one time, on your  website, you had a parity regarding the government and  ordering food from a fast food restaurant and how the person taking  your order was reviewing your health history online, prior to letting you order.     I also enjoyed reading your hangar building process and dealing with  all the bureaucrats who get their check on Friday and could careless if you ever  get your building constructed.  Thanks for making me  smile.  Keep working on your RV7 and I will continue to work on  my RV9.  If and when I order my motor and bigger items I will be  checking your site for recommend vendors.  Thanks.  

  

 Jim

 [quote]   ---

chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

Brian,

 Thanks for the link to your site. I'd like to put in a good word for Rocky Mountain Instruments. I purchased both their Micro Encoder and Micro Monitor products used, from other RV owners (they upgraded). My Micro Monitor was missing several buttons. I also wanted to add the fuel totalizer feature.

 I called RMI, he sold me the fuel flow transducer at a price $80 lower than the next lowest competitor. I explained that I had purchased the products used. He asked for the serial numbers and my info. He likes to keep track of where is products are. He also sent me a complete set of buttons for the Micro Monitor for free (even the shipping). 

 My MicroEncoder has a minor scratch on it's display face. I was able to purchase a replacement display for $24.95! Can you imagine what Garmin would charge for a damaged display?? $$$$$$ Mr. Mower answered tons of questions regarding his products, was very polite and shipped my items immediately. I highly recommend RMI.

Charlie Kuss

--- On Fri, 5/9/08, Brian Meyette <bmeyette(at)gmail.com> wrote:



[quote] From: Brian Meyette <bmeyette(at)gmail.com>

 Subject: RE: crooks at Performance Engines

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, May 9, 2008, 2:02 PM

 I maintain a list on my web site describing my experiences

 with various

 vendors.  The vast majority have been super to deal with,

 but here have been

 some with poor customer service.  Fortunately, none has

 outright ripped me

 off, as described by Larry James; the few negatives are

 mostly just poor

 customer service & bad attitudes.   It isnâ€™t an

 all-encompassing list; just

 my own experiences with the vendors I have dealt with in

 building my plane.

 

 Brian

 

 HYPERLINK

 "http://brian76.mystarband.net/vendors.htm"http://brian76.mystarband.net/ven

 dors.htm

 

  

 

  

 

    _____  

 

 From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of

 Jim Fogarty at

 Lakes & Leisure Realty

 Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:38 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: crooks at Performance Engines

 

  

 

 We need a list on this site of preferred vendors and

 vendors we should not

 deal with and that list should be on the search page for

 all RV's.  I'm

 wondering if this is possible?   We work hard everyday in

 the shop and at

 our day job, and we certainly should know who the crooks

 are!  Just my two

 cents.

 

  

 

 Jim 

 

 RV9a N492RV (building)

 

 ---

bmeyette

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Cornish, NH

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: crooks at Performance Engines

Thank you, Jim, for making ME smile    

   

   

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty

 Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 10:54 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: crooks at Performance Engines  

  

     

Brian,  Thanks for this information, I have been on your site many times over the last 3 years and appreciate what you have done to help me and other builders in this process.  I still use the information you sent three years ago, regarding my question on how much we should torque down nuts and bolts.  At one time, on your website, you had a parity regarding the government and ordering food from a fast food restaurant and how the person taking your order was reviewing your health history online, prior to letting you order.    I also enjoyed reading your hangar building process and dealing with all the bureaucrats who get their check on Friday and could careless if you ever get your building constructed.  Thanks for making me smile.  Keep working on your RV7 and I will continue to work on my RV9.  If and when I order my motor and bigger items I will be checking your site for recommend vendors.  Thanks.    

    

   

    

Jim  

  [quote]    

---

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