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bcondrey



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Can somebody get me the measurement from the wing tie-down points to the floor? I’ve had it on my “to do” list to get a set of wing jacks but am out of town at the moment and would like to get them ordered.

Thanks.

Bob
N442PM (flying)
[quote][b]


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2787

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:00 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

The ones I used are real cheap right now...$30 each ain't bad at all.
Refer to:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html#Jacking_the_RV-10
This is wha tthey are:

3 TON SUPER HEAVY DUTY LONG RAM HYDRAULIC FLAT BOTTOM JACK

Enormous Stroke for Big Jobs
Ideal for use on hydraulic cranes, engine hoists, and a wide variety of
applications for mechanics, truckers, farmers, and off-road enthusiasts.
Enormous 20'' stroke for jobs requiring a large lift. Baked enamel
finish. 1 piece handle.

* Capacity: 3 ton
* Max. Height: 44-1/2''
* Min. height: 24''
* Stroke: 20''
* Shaft diameter: 1-7/64''
* Pinhole size: 5/8''
* Weight: 27-1/2 lbs.

ITEM 36468-2VGA
Price: $29.99

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
Quote:
Can somebody get me the measurement from the wing tie-down points to the
floor? Ive had it on my to do list to get a set of wing jacks but am
out of town at the moment and would like to get them ordered.



Thanks.



Bob

N442PM (flying)



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speckter(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:56 am    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

I went to measure mine and discovered that one wing is an inch lower than the other. I had not noticed it before but if you make your jack 28” you will have 1” clearance to the ring (29” on one side 30” on the other)

Gary
40274 Flying.


From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 9:03 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Quick Question


Can somebody get me the measurement from the wing tie-down points to the floor? I’ve had it on my “to do” list to get a set of wing jacks but am out of town at the moment and would like to get them ordered.

Thanks.

Bob
N442PM (flying)
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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2787

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:20 am    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Actually, I'd avoid making them all the way that tall if you can.
The jacks I used are 24", which makes it so that if you lower them,
you have less of a chance of running the wings into them if you roll
the plane in and out. I usually leave mine parked under the wings,
out about 2' from the end so you don't trip on them. Then they're
ready for use without lugging them too far....and they clear
the ailerons if they are down when you push the plane back.
The 20" stroke gives it all the reach it needs.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
gary wrote:
Quote:
I went to measure mine and discovered that one wing is an inch lower
than the other. I had not noticed it before but if you make your jack
28 you will have 1 clearance to the ring (29 on one side 30 on the
other)



Gary

40274 Flying.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Condrey,
Bob (US SSA)
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 24, 2008 9:03 PM
*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Quick Question



Can somebody get me the measurement from the wing tie-down points to the
floor? Ive had it on my to do list to get a set of wing jacks but am
out of town at the moment and would like to get them ordered.



Thanks.



Bob

N442PM (flying)

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:34 am    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Where are you looking to 'get' these from?

I've been surfing for them a bit and can't seem to find what I think I'm
looking for.

I'm thinking about a tripod type stand looking thing with a bottle jack in the
middle - or some reasonable facsimile thereof.....
--


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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Buy the Harbor Freight tall bottle jacks and make your own 'stabilizer' out of a foot square piece of steel.  Flatten the ends of suitable lengths of 1/2" EMT and use pieces of angle iron on the base corners and at the upper end ..... large hose clamp to hold the upper end or make a huge ''washer" to attach the angles to.  Be sure to label "experimental"!!! Wink
Linn
do not archive

Ralph E. Capen wrote: [quote] [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> (recapen(at)earthlink.net) Where are you looking to 'get' these from? I've been surfing for them a bit and can't seem to find what I think I'm looking for. I'm thinking about a tripod type stand looking thing with a bottle jack in the middle - or some reasonable facsimile thereof..... --


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AV8ORJWC



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Just as a caveat.  Some but not all of the Harbor Freight units have a history of a slow bleed of pressure.  Some places prefer a locking method to insure the aircraft does not come down without intention.

For the quick, down and dirty on a RV-10 budget, they often work fine.

On a plastic plane budget, with retract…. stories could be told.

John Cox

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:53 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Question



Buy the Harbor Freight tall bottle jacks and make your own 'stabilizer' out of a foot square piece of steel. Flatten the ends of suitable lengths of 1/2" EMT and use pieces of angle iron on the base corners and at the upper end ..... large hose clamp to hold the upper end or make a huge ''washer" to attach the angles to. Be sure to label "experimental"!!! Wink
Linn
do not archive

Ralph E. Capen wrote: [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>Where are you looking to 'get' these from?I've been surfing for them a bit and can't seem to find what I think I'mlooking for.I'm thinking about a tripod type stand looking thing with a bottle jack in themiddle - or some reasonable facsimile thereof.....--


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2787

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Mine will stay up all week with no leakage, but good point. If you
have any super critical maintenance that would cause the plane
settling slowly to make major pains, you may want to attach a locking
collar or build a stop-shaft that would prevent the plane from going
down any further than a certain point.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Cox wrote:
Quote:
Just as a caveat. Some but not all of the Harbor Freight units have a
history of a slow bleed of pressure. Some places prefer a locking
method to insure the aircraft does not come down without intention.



For the quick, down and dirty on a RV-10 budget, they often work fine.



On a plastic plane budget, with retract…. stories could be told.



John Cox




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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

John Cox wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Just as a caveat.  Some but not all of the Harbor Freight units have a history of a slow bleed of pressure.
This is true.  If you get one that bleeds down, just take it back.  If you've had it a long time and it starts to bleed down, unscrew the shutoff part, and remove the ball so you can inspect the seat.  I've found metal shavings pressed into the seat ..... probably because I was trying to stop the bleed down by really torquing down that screw.  I've also found seats that looked like a chip was missing ..... like a drill bit stopped and pulled a chip free instead of shaving it off.  Fixed that one with a drill bit and polished with valve grinding compound. 

It's a whole lot easier to return the jack!!!
Linn

[quote]
  Some places prefer a locking method to insure the aircraft does not come down without intention.
 
For the quick, down and dirty on a RV-10 budget, they often work fine.
 
On a plastic plane budget, with retract…. stories could be told.
 
John Cox
 
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:53 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Quick Question


 
Buy the Harbor Freight tall bottle jacks and make your own 'stabilizer' out of a foot square piece of steel.  Flatten the ends of suitable lengths of 1/2" EMT and use pieces of angle iron on the base corners and at the upper end ..... large hose clamp to hold the upper end or make a huge ''washer" to attach the angles to.  Be sure to label "experimental"!!! Wink
Linn
do not archive

Ralph E. Capen wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Where are you looking to 'get' these from? I've been surfing for them a bit and can't seem to find what I think I'mlooking for. I'm thinking about a tripod type stand looking thing with a bottle jack in themiddle - or some reasonable facsimile thereof.....  
0 [quote]--


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1626
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

I don't know. Folks will spend $600+ for a pneumatic squeezer, but don't want to spend ~360 for a good pair of jacks. Aircraft GSE makes some really nice ones for about the same as Jack House and others.
http://www.aircraft-gse.com/lw-3.html
If you only need one for tire changing, you can do that too, for under $200.
I don't want a 1600lb plane falling on me from a homemade jack.
YMMV, BWTFDIK

linn Walters wrote:
Quote:
Buy the Harbor Freight tall bottle jacks and make your own 'stabilizer' out of a foot square piece of steel.  Flatten the ends of suitable lengths of 1/2" EMT and use pieces of angle iron on the base corners and at the upper end ..... large hose clamp to hold the upper end or make a huge ''washer" to attach the angles to.  Be sure to label "experimental"!!! Wink
Linn
do not archive

 
 
[quote][b]


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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:42 am    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Kelly McMullen wrote:
Quote:
I don't know. Folks will spend $600+ for a pneumatic squeezer, but don't want to spend ~360 for a good pair of jacks.
True .... but they'll use the squeezer far more often than the jacks.
Quote:
Aircraft GSE makes some really nice ones for about the same as Jack House and others.
http://www.aircraft-gse.com/lw-3.html
If you only need one for tire changing, you can do that too, for under $200.
That's a nice jack.
Quote:
I don't want a 1600lb plane falling on me from a homemade jack.
YMMV, BWTFDIK
You obviously know you can't hold up a 1600lb airplane by yourself!!!     But if you've already spent $600 for the squeezer, $60 for two jacks plus some steel and time is really easy on your wallet.  Not to belabor the point, but we (the collective 'we') build things, and are just as capable of making safe jackstands as anyone else. 

The storebought jackstands do have the spring-loaded wheels which makes it much easier to move around.
Linn
[quote]
linn Walters wrote:
Quote:
Buy the Harbor Freight tall bottle jacks and make your own 'stabilizer' out of a foot square piece of steel.  Flatten the ends of suitable lengths of 1/2" EMT and use pieces of angle iron on the base corners and at the upper end ..... large hose clamp to hold the upper end or make a huge ''washer" to attach the angles to.  Be sure to label "experimental"!!! Wink
Linn
do not archive
[b]


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:41 am    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

You will use that pneumatic squeezer a whole lot and it will make a lot of tedious work very easy. Jacks on the other hand would be used by a pilot owner MUCH less often. And after all, you would be flying a "homemade" plane, why should you have less faith in your "homemade" jacks?

Aircraft jacks for $360 for a pilot/owner (not a maintenance facility) makes about as much sense as those powered aircraft tows for $2,000 when a good new John Deer tractor with a tow hitch can be had for around $1,500. At least you can also use the John Deer to plow the snow from your hangar entrance in the winter and oh yeah, maybe mow the lawn.

William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/

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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1138
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Probably heresy on my part, but after the build is complete, you will
hardly ever use that squeezer, and could easily sell it to another
builder to more than finance the single jack you need for tire
changing and have enough cash left for a hamburger run or two. And
just as we all choose to build and most choose to do their own
maintenance, for the years I've owned a retract plane, I saved far
more doing my own gear maintenance a single time than what the jacks
cost me (got a special of $300 for the pair). Lessee, $360 is what
percent on a $150K RV-10? Compared to a single hole punched in a wing
from a jack failing? Or an arm caught under an axle? We all make our
choices for our risk tolerance and pay our money. No one right choice,
just offering an alternative point of view.
Kelly
do not archive

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:53 PM, William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> wrote:
[quote]

You will use that pneumatic squeezer a whole lot and it will make a lot of tedious work very easy. Jacks on the other hand would be used by a pilot owner MUCH less often. And after all, you would be flying a "homemade" plane, why should you have less faith in your "homemade" jacks?

Aircraft jacks for $360 for a pilot/owner (not a maintenance facility) makes about as much sense as those powered aircraft tows for $2,000 when a good new John Deer tractor with a tow hitch can be had for around $1,500. At least you can also use the John Deer to plow the snow from your hangar entrance in the winter and oh yeah, maybe mow the lawn.

William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/

------


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Kelly McMullen
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KCHD
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AV8ORJWC



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Will make good on Kelly's prudent offer to finance Jacks by sale of Squeezers.

Interested parties, Contact me at (503) 453-6016. I can always use a few more pneumatics and have lots of clients looking for squeezers. Boeing Surplus went south on us "out here in the West". I encourage active, cognizant jack operations. Have a close friend (and A&P instructor) who lost a wing spar on a twin Apache by use of a cheap bottle jack while using student labor. It failed the gear retraction test as the jack remained mostly upright after a slight loss of position, until it destroyed the spar. Ouch!

John Cox
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

John Cox wrote:
Quote:


Will make good on Kelly's prudent offer to finance Jacks by sale of Squeezers.

Interested parties, Contact me at (503) 453-6016. I can always use a few more pneumatics and have lots of clients looking for squeezers. Boeing Surplus went south on us "out here in the West". I encourage active, cognizant jack operations. Have a close friend (and A&P instructor) who lost a wing spar on a twin Apache by use of a cheap bottle jack while using student labor.
I think the 'student labor' was probably the operative word. I agree

that improper jacking is hazardous to your airplanes health. I saw an
airplane jacked up for a retract test, teetering on the jacks with the
tail tied down with rope .... and the A&P climbs in to pull the gear
up. The whole airplane slowly rotated and settled on the wheels .....
cockeyed in the hangar ..... and couldn't be rolled out!

You need three points jacked firmly up for stability, and the jack bases
need to be large enough so they won't tip. If you're going to use the
tail tiedown ring ..... use a metal tub with concrete in it and a pipe
sticking up .... with an eye or hook on the other end. Prevents the
tail from swinging. Three solid points almost guarantees a good, stable
lift. The type of jacking points on the wing are also critical.
Whatever you choose, inverted cone (ala Piper) or a pin .... whatever
... needs to fit the top of the jack too.
Quote:
It failed the gear retraction test as the jack remained mostly upright after a slight loss of position, until it destroyed the spar. Ouch!

I watched a 'crew' of hangar rats try to lift a Baron off the runway

after a gear up landing ..... you know the 'expert' types ..... and the
plane slipped off the jacks and .... fuel tank developed a large
leak!!! I watched because nobody would listen .....

John's correct ..... jacking your aircraft is an unnatural act and
should be approached with caution ..... but like anything else the
operation can end up in the toilet if you're not careful.
Linn
Quote:
John Cox
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bcondrey



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Quick Question Reply with quote

Wow, who would have thought that a simple question would have generated so many responses- thanks Gary for the specific data!

I appreciate those that suggested a variety of approaches to jacks (both online and offline). My issue is that I have been out of town a LOT lately for work and at this point I just don't want to use the little bit of spare time I have to build jacks. I ordered a pair from JackHouse and should have them early next week.

An interesting observation about the wheelpants & gearleg fairings is that most people focus on the speed increase. Another major, but unspoken, benefit is that you get significant increased cooling from the extra speed/airflow at the same power settings.

Thanks again to those that responded.

Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

LOL.....I want a $150K RV-10....Seems mine has slightly exceeded that amount

Rick Sked
40185
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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2787

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Hey Rick,

Now that you're this far along....give your opinion as to how your views
may or may not have shifted on what you feel the "average" builder will
put into their RV-10. What was your original budget and thoughts,
and how did that come out?

For me, I probably ended up 40-60K over what I originally intended,
starting out and allowing creep as I went along. Just wondering
if you have a perspective change.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rick Sked wrote:
Quote:


LOL.....I want a $150K RV-10....Seems mine has slightly exceeded that amount

Rick Sked
40185
do not archive


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

I suspect this happened to all of us.......I'm about 25% over what I originally thought.....but I wouldn't change what I have done.....

grumpy

do not archive

In a message dated 6/26/2008 9:13:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

Hey Rick,

Now that you're this far along....give your opinion as to how your views
may or may not have shifted on what you feel the "average" builder will
put into their RV-10. What was your original budget and thoughts,
and how did that come out?

For me, I probably ended up 40-60K over what I originally intended,
starting out and allowing creep as I went along. Just wondering
if you have a perspective change.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rick Sked wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>

LOL.....I want a $150K RV-10....Seems mine has slightly exceeded that amount

Rick Sked
40185
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Kelly McMullen



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1138
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Quick Question Reply with quote

Well, I just saw a kit for sale on airport bulletin board...everything
except avionics from what I could gather, and definitely at the
finishing stage, for asking price of $100K, including new certified
engine and lighting installed.
So I just threw a figure out there I figure could be achieved with
Van's theoretical VFR machine...not the panels that out do Cirrus et
al. I know that many folks are pushing or exceeding 200K. Just didn't
want to look like I was inflating figures.

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Rick Sked <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:
[quote]

LOL.....I want a $150K RV-10....Seems mine has slightly exceeded that amount

Rick Sked
40185
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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