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Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

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herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

Guys  



  Changed the subject line to better reflect the conversation.. 



   Let me see if I have it straight??   No Kolb wing has been documented

to fail in normal operation!  That would include running headlong at

speed into some mean thermals in the south west.. 



    Only two leading edges have failed and this was the result of  flight

way ,way,way  above and beyond normal operation..  Aerobatic flight! 

Even Dennis told us that he was young and heroic at one time.. 



    I think we have a couple of guys here who are doing  damage to the

Kolb Reputation.. Well deserved that it is... 



   

      So   what are we really talking about??  Someones fears??   That

conversation will last a long time... 



    Herb --pining for the good old days when Sea Foam and oil choices  

ruled!!  





On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 16:50:26 -0500 "John Murr" <jdm(at)wideworld.net>

writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 If you exert pressure on the leading edge until it fails it won't 

 break the 

 rib tubing. It has to bend.  Since being "in column" is not an 

 exacting

flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

Good words well spoken.  I should have thought of saying that - but I didn't

- so thank you Herb!



Dennis



--

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

|    Only two leading edges have failed and this was the result of 

flight

| way ,way,way  above and beyond normal operation..  Aerobatic flight!

| Even Dennis told us that he was young and heroic at one time..



 |    I think we have a couple of guys here who are doing  damage to 

the

| Kolb Reputation.. Well deserved that it is...



 |    Herb -- 



Herb/Gang:



I don't believe Dennis Souder intended to test the Ultrastar to 

destruction, but it happened.  Was not the result of a leading edge 

failure, but a drag strut which allowed the wing to fold.  The US 

Dennis was flying had no drag strut brace.  The drag strut brace came 

along as the result of Dennis folding the US wing.



My original FS normally never pulled more than 3 to 3.5 G's indicated 

on a certified accelerometer (G meter).  I can only remember pulling 

more than 3.5 G's once, in an attempt to see how much I could pull, 

which was 5.0 G's and I really had to work hard to accomplish that. 

The aerobatics I flew were well within the stress allowance of the FS. 

However, the FS was not and is not an aerobatic aircraft.  Have not 

flown any aerobatics since 11 March 1990.  Think I learned my lesson. 

Those of you that like to push the envelope, raise Hell, have fun, but 

don't hurt any innocent bystanders.



Please explain the second paragraph above.  I am not sure what you 

mean and who you are talking about.



If you are referring to me, I do not think sharing my experience, 

mistakes, failures, successes is in any way going to damage the 

reputation of The New Kolb Aircraft Company.  If it was, I am sure 

Bruce Chesnut, Donnie Sizemore, and Travis Brown would rap me up side 

my hard head or put a boot up my butt to get my attention.



I'm working on a post to the Kolb List now.  Hopefully, it will 

explain what has happened and how "I" prepared to preclude this from 

happening again.



I have never stopped flying Kolbs, mine and factory, since I made my 

first flight July 1984.  If I had any doubt about the reliability or 

safety of Kolb aircraft, I would never get in another one.



I think it is very important, especially on the 5 rib wings, to insure 

the lateral bracing is in place.  Contrary to popular belief, those 

little 5/16" fabric braces on the leading edge will break from 

vibration and end up riding on the bottom wing fabric.  You can smack 

the bottom fabric of the wing with the palm of your hand in all the 

rib bays to see if there is anything in there riding around freely. 

If there is, you will hear it rattle.



The best way to check the leading edge bracing, which is really fabric 

bracing, is make a small slit with a razor blade in the inboard rib 

fabric.  Get a flashlight and look inside to see what you have.  When 

you are finished, get a roll of 2" plastic electrical tape and seal up 

the hole to keep the windstream and bugs out.



If I was going to fly a 5 rib of my own, I would make the "hauck" mods 

to insure I was going to land under the wings and not a parachute.  My 

own personal desire because I have experienced wing failure and do not 

want to ever go through that again.  OK?  If you had walked in my 

shoes, you would understand where I come from.



Take care,



john h

MKIII/912ULS

hauck's holler, alabama



What others do is their business.  Based on history of Kolb aircraft, 

there ain't no problem.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

In a message dated 3/8/2006 8:26:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

herbgh(at)juno.com writes:



Herb  --pining for the good old days when Sea Foam and oil choices  

ruled!!   



Oh Herbie,

 

You are so funny.  hehehe

 

Billy Varnes

herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

John



   Uh! Uh!!  You would be the last on my list... I do not even want to go

back and look at the last several days of mail to make any named

acusations.. 



   My understanding of your failure was that it did not happen in the

normal flight envelope.. Same for the fatility.. 



   Seems that both accidents have been written about before?  



   I would be the last to  discourage sharing info of any type about

Kolbs and flying them..   Think I have griped about my Firefly going over

on its nose easily... Cannot think of one gripe about the mkIII that I

owned..  



   Perhaps my building a set of single lift wings muddied the water a

bit?   I am doing that just because I like the idea.. Ain't going to toss

the current set of wings... Adding the d cell might have implied some

concern--not so---Just  like the idea.  



   What I  was referring to was the harrangue that has gone on about

structural reliability when flown  normally with a subject line that was

clearly wrong..   



    I sensed  that a real fear was developing about the Kolb

aircraft,particularly the 5 rib Firestar, with no evidence of a problem..

 While TNK does not build a 5 rib wing Firestar, they are clearly

identified with the name..  



   Ain't gonna defend anyone when they are wrong... Nor out of mis placed

loyalty..   



   What I think and likely the last 20 or so years tends to indicate

is:---Kolb makes the strongest airplane of its type in the country.  The

aproval by the Brits is a clear indication of that! 



  Herb 



    



    

 	  Quote: 	
		   

  |    I think we have a couple of guys here who are doing  damage to 

 

 the

 | Kolb Reputation.. Well deserved that it is...

 

  |    Herb -- 

 

 Herb/Gang:

 

 > 

 Please explain the second paragraph above.  I am not sure what you 

 mean and who you are talking about.

 

 If you are referring to me, I do not think sharing my experience, 

 mistakes, failures, successes is in any way going to damage the 

 reputation of The New Kolb Aircraft Company.  If it was, I am sure 

 Bruce Chesnut, Donnie Sizemore, and Travis Brown would rap me up 

 side 

 my hard head or put a boot up my butt to get my attention.

 

 I'm working on a post to the Kolb List now.  Hopefully, it will 

 explain what has happened and how "I" prepared to preclude this from 

 

 

 john h

 MKIII/912ULS

 hauck's holler, alabama

 

 What others do is their business.  Based on history of Kolb 

 aircraft, 

 there ain't no problem.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 

 


	




Its what we learn after we know everything that is the most important.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

|   What I think and likely the last 20 or so years tends to indicate

| is:---Kolb makes the strongest airplane of its type in the country. 

|

|  Herb



That's why I chose it in 1983, finally got the $3,495.00 to buy my 

first one in March 1984, and still flying them in 2006.



I looked for 6 months at what was available before I made my final 

decision.  Back then, nothing came close.  Today, it is still my first 

choice, because these little airplanes do for me what I want to do in 

aviation.  Satisfy all my flying desires.



Well...........I wouldn't mind cruising at 150 mph when I get in a 

hurry, but I'll give up the unrealistic cruise for all the other 

attributes of the Kolbs.



Take care,



john h

MKIII (SN:  M3-011)

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Kirk Smith

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 78
Location: SE Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

 	  Quote: 	
		     Changed the subject line to better reflect the conversation.. 

 

    Let me see if I have it straight??   No Kolb wing has been documented

 to fail in normal operation!  


	


You certainly have a valid point.  No more posts from me on that subject. 



Do not archive

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:52 am Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

On Mar 8, 2006, at 10:39 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   That's why I chose it in 1983, finally got the $3,495.00 to buy my

 first one in March 1984, and still flying them in 2006.


	




John,

  I saw that nice Firestar of yours at Bill Lock's Flight Farm when  

you were in route to Oshkosh.  I dont remember if I met you in  

person there or not but I remember it as being an excellent fly-in.   

Bert Howland was there with his two little planes and I forgot the  

guys name with his Monarch flying wing glider, which Bill Lock towed  

to altitude with his 582-powered Terratorn.



Bill Martin trailered in Kolbs demonstrators but someone forgot to  

pack the struts for their Firestar so the guys back home quickly UPS- 

ed them up the next day and I remember being impresses with the fast  

shipping service ,,,,,,,,,,,,, but then again Homer was still working  

for UPS back then.   



Earl flew in that year with our modified Mark II with a 582 while I  

provided ground support, hauling all our fuel, gear and grub.

This plane is the one pictured in Earls Frapper profile and is still  

flying great with that same engine.

I gave it a face-lift and Earl rebuilt the engine this winter and it  

will likely be flown to Homers place again by grandson Eddie as it  

was last year on Fathers Day weekend.



Like you, I too am still flying a Kolb with no regrets.



PS

Sure would be nice to have you join the event at Homers this year.



Gene

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

|  I saw that nice Firestar of yours at Bill Lock's Flight Farm when

| you were in route to Oshkosh.



| Sure would be nice to have you join the event at Homers this year.

|

| Gene



Gene/Gang:



Yep, those were the days.    That would have been the 1989 Flight 

Farm Flyin.  That was the second year I flew the FS up there.  And 

yes, I was enroute to Oshkosh.  Powered with the old point ign 447, I 

had flown to Homer Kolb's for a few days, then up to Bert Howland's in 

Maryland, NY, for a week, then flew through all the New England 

States, over to the Flight Farm at Monterey, NY.  Spent about a week 

there, then flew over Niagra Falls for the second time, around 

Detroit, up to Sault St Marie, Canada, and finally west and south into 

Oshkosh 1989.  Weather was terrible the day I flew into OSH.  Had been 

scud running, right on the deck all the way from Manistique, MI, where 

I had RON'd.  The "dealers show case" was in full bloom when I circled 

the UL strip to land.  Before I got out of the FS someone stuck a 

microphone in my face.  Very exciting times.  My little bird won OSH 

Grand Champion UL that year.  Was a very happy two day flight home to 

Alabama from OSH.  I think this flight was 25 days and over 3,000 

miles, the longest I had done in an UL.



This was 17 years ago with a single point ign 447, and you all are 

wondering if your new Rotax will get you around the patch.  hehehe



Eugene, that was the year Bert put me in his Honey Bee.  Little did he 

know he would have a hard time getting me out of it.  Was a fun 

airplane to fly, landed by itself at 25 mph, but it wasn't a Kolb.



The next year, 1990, is when Homer and Dick Rahill forgot the lift 

struts for the FS and had to go back to get them.  By that time I had 

lost my FS and was ground bound and making plans to build the MKIII I 

am flying today.



Got a bc email from Dennis Souder last night.  In my reply to him I 

mentioned I was considering making the Father's Day Flyin at Homer's 

this year.  Been 12 years since I have been to the Kolb Farm, 1994, 

when I was on my way home from Alaska via the US border.  Unless 

something unforeseen happens between now and then, I will be at 

Homer's for the flyin.



Time sure is flying.



john h

hauck's holler, alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Leading edge that has never failed in normal operation

On Mar 9, 2006, at 10:25 AM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		     Unless

 something unforeseen happens between now and then, I will be at

 Homer's for the flyin.


	


Good!  Looking forward to meeting you there at the Kolb Farm with all  

the "classic" pilots and planes.  



Someone should put a marker on the Kolb Frapper satellite map for  

Homers place.  It can be found easily on the road map. Just look for  

Homers little  lake between Spring City and Phoenixville then click  

satellite and zoom in for amazing detail.



 >> Time sure is flying. <<

Yes, for sure!  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, pun intended

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