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Bonding Strap Location

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tie-norman(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

For those of you that decided to install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing.  

   

Also, what are you using for the strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php with a crimped ring terminal?  

   

Thanks,  

Tommy 

 Frisco,  TX (DFW area) 

 RV-10  

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.   

--Leonardo da Vinci

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

I am not planning on putting on static wicks but I do  plan on trying to bond the flight controls.  How?  Not sure yet.   You have the right idea with the tinned strap though.  Several people are  doing wicks and you can find a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting  point.  I don't necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that  need wicks yet, but to each his own.  The electrical potential difference  between the flight controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause  problems (RF noise, corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the  trailing edges IMHO.

  

   

Michael Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy  Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

For those of you that decided to  install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding  straps?  I have looked at the  production spam cans around the airport but wanted to see what other -10  builders are doing. 

  

Also, what are you using for the  strap and what size?  Something like  this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php  with a crimped ring terminal? 

  

Thanks, 

Tommy 

Frisco,  TX  (DFW area) 

RV-10 

For once you have tasted  flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you  have been and there you will long to return.  

--Leonardo da  Vinci

jjessen(at)rcn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

Michael, then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we  fly faster.  Is it only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are  needed?  I don't know about any of this, so may put them on to just keep  the elephants away.  

  

 John Jessen

   ~328 (buildus interruptus)



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder  (Michael Sausen)

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:41 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

 I am not planning on putting on static wicks but I do  plan on trying to bond the flight controls.  How?  Not sure yet.   You have the right idea with the tinned strap though.  Several people are  doing wicks and you can find a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting  point.  I don't necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that  need wicks yet, but to each his own.  The electrical potential difference  between the flight controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause  problems (RF noise, corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the  trailing edges IMHO.

  

   

Michael Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy  Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

For those of you that decided to  install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding  straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the  airport but wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing. 

  

Also, what are you using for the  strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php  with a crimped ring terminal? 

  

Thanks, 

Tommy 

Frisco, TX (DFW  area) 

RV-10 

For once you have tasted flight you will  walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there  you will long to return.  

--Leonardo da Vinci

tie-norman(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

John,  

   

You can search the archives here and on www.vansairforce.net to find some good information.  It is a personal decision much like the primer debate (both of which have been debated enough already).  I decided to add them to error on the side of caution.  I have been frustrated enough times in the past due to lost or garbled communications (not fun in busy airspace or while IFR).  

   

Tom  

   

--

tie-norman(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

Thanks Michael.  Do you know what size bonding strap you will use?  I’m thinking ¼” but that is a pure WAG with no technical theory to back it up.  

   

   

--

jjessen(at)rcn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:08 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

Tom, thanks!

  

 do not archive



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy  Norman

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 9:39 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

John, 

  

You can search the  archives here and on www.vansairforce.net to find some good  information.  It is a personal  decision much like the primer debate (both of which have been debated enough  already).  I decided to add them to  error on the side of caution.  I  have been frustrated enough times in the past due to lost or garbled  communications (not fun in busy airspace or while  IFR). 

  

Tom 

  

-----Original  Message-----

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:18  AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location 

  

Michael,  then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it only  when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know about  any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.    

  

John  Jessen 

   ~328 (buildus interruptus) 

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael  Sausen)

Sent: Thursday, March  09, 2006 9:41 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location 

I am not  planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight  controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with the  tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find a  rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't necessarily  believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but to each his  own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight controls and  the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise, corrosion,  etc) than actual static build up at the trailing  edges IMHO. 

  

Michael  Sausen 

RV-10 #352  Working on Fuselage 

Do Not  Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity 

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45  PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap  Location 

For those of you that decided to  install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding  straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but  wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing. 

  

Also, what are you using for the  strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php  with a crimped ring terminal? 

  

Thanks, 

Tommy 

Frisco, TX (DFW  area) 

RV-10 

For once you have tasted  flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you  have been and there you will long to return.  

--Leonardo da  Vinci

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

Honestly I don't know, but we are dealing with  such a tiny amount of current over such a short distance I would think  1/4 would be plenty.  I will probably use whatever fit's the  best.

  

  

Michael Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build Activity

  



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy  Norman

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:46 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

Thanks Michael.  Do you know what size bonding strap you  will use?  I’m thinking ¼” but that  is a pure WAG with no technical theory to back it  up. 

  

  

-----Original  Message-----

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael  Sausen)

Sent: Thursday, March  09, 2006 8:41 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location 

  

I am not  planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight  controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with the  tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find a  rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't necessarily  believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but to each his  own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight controls and  the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise, corrosion,  etc) than actual static build up at the trailing  edges IMHO. 

  

Michael  Sausen 

RV-10 #352  Working on Fuselage 

Do Not  Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity 

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45  PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap  Location 

For those of you that decided to  install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding  straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but  wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing. 

  

Also, what are you using for the  strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php  with a crimped ring terminal? 

  

Thanks, 

Tommy 

Frisco, TX (DFW  area) 

RV-10 

For once you have tasted  flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you  have been and there you will long to return.  

--Leonardo da  Vinci

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

John,

  

   I am by no means an expert in this field but I  have heard all sides including comments on this from Dick Kohler at a EAA  Sportair Workshop on Electrical Systems just last weekend.  He is much  smarter than most of us and echoed my thoughts on the  matter.

  

   The bottom line is static wicks are a black art  and there is no "one" placement that will 100% work on all of even one model of  aircraft.  As I understand things, precipitation static, what we are  worrying about here, is only generated when something (water vapor, dust, smoke,  etc) rubs against the airframe at speeds great enough to generate a  charge.  This charge buildup is what causes the problems and static wicks  give a low resistance point to shed that charge back to the  atmosphere.

  

   Bottom line is many people put them on to chase  away pink elephants, nothing wrong with that.  You will never know if they  help because it is very much a perceived value unless you take them off and have  a problem.  Static charges loves to jump away via sharp points at the aft  most point it can.  There is always a good chance that with our metal  aircraft, and sub 200 knot speeds, static energy will dissipate on it's own  from the sharp trailing edge of the control surfaces, hence my reason for still  wanting to bond control surfaces with the airframe.  One issue with us is  the fact that the absolute aft most point on the -10 is actually fiberglass  with a tail light.  If you do have a problem you can always bond wicks  later.

  

   For me I was all over putting them on in the  beginning.  Once I talked to some people and read a bunch of stuff, I  realized they probably aren't needed.  Adding the fact they are ugly, prone  to poking me as I climb around, and add some amount of drag, I decided I can  always add them later.  One thing to keep in mind, wicks will almost  certainly not help in a lightening strike as it has enough energy to overcome  any resistance to it's path of choice.  But bonded surfaces will help  it directly traverse the airframe without jumping and burning  holes.

  

 My two cents.

  

 Michael  Sausen

  

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build Activity

  



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John  Jessen

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:18 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

 Michael, then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we  fly faster.  Is it only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are  needed?  I don't know about any of this, so may put them on to just keep  the elephants away.  

  

 John Jessen

   ~328 (buildus interruptus)



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder  (Michael Sausen)

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:41 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

 I am not planning on putting on static wicks but I do  plan on trying to bond the flight controls.  How?  Not sure yet.   You have the right idea with the tinned strap though.  Several people are  doing wicks and you can find a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting  point.  I don't necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that  need wicks yet, but to each his own.  The electrical potential difference  between the flight controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause  problems (RF noise, corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the  trailing edges IMHO.

  

   

Michael Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy  Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

For those of you that decided to  install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding  straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the  airport but wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing. 

  

Also, what are you using for the  strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php  with a crimped ring terminal? 

  

Thanks, 

Tommy 

Frisco, TX (DFW  area) 

RV-10 

For once you have tasted flight you will  walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there  you will long to return.  

--Leonardo da Vinci

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

P static and Lightning Dissipation are two different electrical events, both of which are centered around assisting the conductivity of a material (Metal/Composite/Air). Saint Elmo’s Fire is another phenomena. Composite canopies (of the sheer size of an RV10) on VANS are a new occurrence.  Aluminum conductivity helps keep P static to a minimum and yet for guys who fly in visible or even translucent clouds, the interference on the radio band is unmistakable.  When moving from Day/VFR/Recreation to Night/IFR/Time important flight, P static needs to be addressed and remediated.  Wicks help in both arena. When you introduce a composite cover at the most remote corner of a control surface you are helping defeat the natural discharge of induced voltage (Wingtip, Horizontal, Vertical, Rudder).  

   

IMHO, It is foolishness not to understand the advantage of bonding straps that circumvent control surface bearing connections with a more conductive path.  When a lightning bolt hits, it always departs somewhere.  The welding effect on bearings or bushings is amazing.  We just replaced 45 feet of rivet line (hundreds of blown rivets) in the floor of one of our Air Carrier birds that ventured into it. It was not flying fast, it was not flying high, it was just flying in the damp Pacific North Wet. With or without static wicks, I would hope every builder makes a conscious choice before dismissing “Bonding Straps”.   It takes a Mega ohm meter to measure such infinitesimal increments of voltage.  Static can be in the millivolt range and still take a bite out of a piece of expensive avionics.  

   

We use ProSeal on each connection point of bonding straps to reduce corrosion, moisture penetration and mechanical strains from movement.  

   

John – KUAO  

Do not Archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

   

Michael, then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know about any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.    

   

John Jessen  

  ~328 (buildus interruptus)  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:41 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

I am not planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with the tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but to each his own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise, corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the trailing edges IMHO.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

 Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Bonding Strap Location  

For those of you that decided to install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing.  

   

Also, what are you using for the strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php with a crimped ring terminal?  

   

Thanks,

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

  As always John, a good addition to the  conversation.  You see more of this in a week  than most of us do in a lifetime.  Glad to see my thoughts on bonding ring  true.

  

   One more thing I want to add is that there is no way  to drain static from fiberglass parts other than to embed a conductive mesh just  below the surface of the part and then bonding that to your airframe.  If  you try to bond a regular fiberglass part, it will only drain that specific  spot.  And if you remember those old high school experiments, the  glass part of fiberglass is one of the better generators of static  electricity.

  

   It really isn't that much more cost or effort to add  such a mesh during construction, and it's too bad they don't.  Of course  our wingtip antennas would be useless and there would be no more hiding GPS  antennas under the cowl.

  

  

Michael Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build Activity

  



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W.  Cox

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:53 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

P static and Lightning  Dissipation are two different electrical events, both of which are centered  around assisting the conductivity of a material (Metal/Composite/Air). Saint  Elmo’s Fire is another phenomena. Composite canopies (of the sheer size of an  RV10) on VANS are a new occurrence.  Aluminum conductivity helps keep P  static to a minimum and yet for guys who fly in visible or even translucent  clouds, the interference on the radio band is unmistakable.  When moving  from Day/VFR/Recreation to Night/IFR/Time important flight, P static needs to be  addressed and remediated.  Wicks help in both arena. When you introduce a  composite cover at the most remote corner of a control surface you are helping  defeat the natural discharge of induced voltage (Wingtip, Horizontal, Vertical,  Rudder). 

  

IMHO, It is foolishness  not to understand the advantage of bonding straps that circumvent control  surface bearing connections with a more conductive path.  When a lightning  bolt hits, it always departs somewhere.  The welding effect on bearings or  bushings is amazing.  We just replaced 45 feet of rivet line (hundreds of  blown rivets) in the floor of one of our Air Carrier birds that ventured into  it. It was not flying fast, it was not flying high, it was just flying in the  damp Pacific North Wet. With or without static wicks, I would hope every builder  makes a conscious choice before dismissing “Bonding Straps”.   It  takes a Mega ohm meter to measure such infinitesimal increments of  voltage.  Static can be in the millivolt range and still take a bite out of  a piece of expensive avionics. 

  

We use ProSeal on each  connection point of bonding straps to reduce corrosion, moisture penetration and  mechanical strains from movement. 

  

John –  KUAO 

Do not  Archive 

     

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:18  AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

Michael,  then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it only  when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know about  any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.    

  

John  Jessen 

   ~328 (buildus interruptus) 

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael  Sausen)

Sent: Thursday, March  09, 2006 9:41 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location 

I am not  planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight  controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with the  tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find a  rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't necessarily  believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but to each his  own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight controls and  the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise, corrosion,  etc) than actual static build up at the trailing  edges IMHO. 

  

Michael  Sausen 

RV-10 #352  Working on Fuselage 

Do Not  Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity 

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45  PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap  Location 

For those of you that decided to  install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding  straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but  wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing. 

  

Also, what are you using for the  strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php  with a crimped ring terminal? 

  

Thanks,

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

Mike, (other John responding)  

   

I too am no expert on this subject but that is why I went to A&P school and choose to work at the airlines to learn while tackling the dream of an RV10.  I don’t chase Pink Elephants but do deal with their droppings - DAILY.  We do so in the stealth of night while others sleep so you never see the size or the process.    

   

Speed is relative and there is no magic number which escapes the reaction of static. You can build up static at 105 knots and I want to go faster.  The aircraft becomes an air capacitor.  Yes over time voltage storage can dissipate, that does not mean that it will, to a level I am comfortable with.  I have been knocked on my Keister more than once with the capacitance of a CRT that was not property grounded.  Igniters on turbines are another example of capacitance.  The goal of static wicks is to discharge back into the source (the atmosphere). Just like a ground wire returns the electron path to the source of generation.  At a certain level, the effect of P static affects safe RF communications.  

   

It is a common misunderstanding that it is the absolute aft locations that are the only correct solution.  That only works on a P3 Orion trailing a MAD array behind it.  If you imagine the centerline (longitudinal) and a centrifugal force slinging P static outboard, then it is the outboard most points from the longitudinal that benefit the greatest from the use of static dissipation wicks.  Hence, Ailerons, Top of the rudder, and outboard on the Horizontal, then maybe the Tail.  Because one can loose effectiveness, we use redundancy with two or more in each location.  Beyond that rule, it does become black magic much like skin mapping for an effective ground plane and signal propagation with your favorite antennae.  It is measurable, it is repeatable and hence with every aircraft being different it creates confusion = Black Magic.  E glass impedes the effective transmission back to the source of the p-static (to the atmosphere).  You need to plan for future wicks if you consider effective deployment later.  They don’t get added Willy Nilly. Removable wicks can remain OFF the aircraft (until after the airshow season) and not placed (threaded back ON) until flight into such planned conditions.  Then back OFF and into storage again.  The lack of effective wicks are the single greatest contributor to blowing holes in composite material when the natural path of high voltage is being interrupted.  This is separate from the subject of P-static. Hence, I humbly disagree that they don’t help in a lightning incursion.  My premise is that they are a requirement to mitigate damage.  We have a megaohmer and test each wick regularly.  Most pilots can’t.  I sent some good information to Tim on this subject for the RV University site.  

   

“Back to picking up piles.”  And to use Dan Checkoway’s quote in this month’s Kitplane – to squeezing the rivets, not bucking.  

   

John - $00.02  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 7:27 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

   

John,  

   

  I am by no means an expert in this field but I have heard all sides including comments on this from Dick Kohler at a EAA Sportair Workshop on Electrical Systems just last weekend.  He is much smarter than most of us and echoed my thoughts on the matter.  

   

  The bottom line is static wicks are a black art and there is no "one" placement that will 100% work on all of even one model of aircraft.  As I understand things, precipitation static, what we are worrying about here, is only generated when something (water vapor, dust, smoke, etc) rubs against the airframe at speeds great enough to generate a charge.  This charge buildup is what causes the problems and static wicks give a low resistance point to shed that charge back to the atmosphere.  

   

  Bottom line is many people put them on to chase away pink elephants, nothing wrong with that.  You will never know if they help because it is very much a perceived value unless you take them off and have a problem.  Static charges loves to jump away via sharp points at the aft most point it can.  There is always a good chance that with our metal aircraft, and sub 200 knot speeds, static energy will dissipate on it's own from the sharp trailing edge of the control surfaces, hence my reason for still wanting to bond control surfaces with the airframe.  One issue with us is the fact that the absolute aft most point on the -10 is actually fiberglass with a tail light.  If you do have a problem you can always bond wicks later.  

   

  For me I was all over putting them on in the beginning.  Once I talked to some people and read a bunch of stuff, I realized they probably aren't needed.  Adding the fact they are ugly, prone to poking me as I climb around, and add some amount of drag, I decided I can always add them later.  One thing to keep in mind, wicks will almost certainly not help in a lightening strike as it has enough energy to overcome any resistance to it's path of choice.  But bonded surfaces will help it directly traverse the airframe without jumping and burning holes.  

   

My two cents.    

   

    

Michael Sausen  

  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity    

   

  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

Michael, then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know about any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.    

   

John Jessen  

  ~328 (buildus interruptus)

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

When  using Proseal, how is it used so as not to interupt  conductivity?

 Gary

 40274

 [quote]   

   --

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

It’s applied over the head of the (correctly torqued) fastener at the terminal end of each braid eyelet.  It seals the fasteners, eyes and braid to the object.  It is much like doing the process inside the fuel cell. Conductivity is through the braid material, through the crimped eye (in contact with the mount point).  The superior path provides a level of protection to direct the damaging voltage away from an “arc across a bearing or bushing face”.  It’s the arc that is so damaging.  

   

It is a bitch to remove when the braid becomes worn and requires replacement.  It is ProSeal, which in some camps is a dirty word.  

   

Proseal is also used in other areas to complete a fayed, fillet between the airframe and an attachment item (like a bracket).  

   

John  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Specketer

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 4:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

     

When using Proseal, how is it used so as not to interupt conductivity?  

    

Gary  

    

40274  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:53 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

P static and Lightning Dissipation are two different electrical events, both of which are centered around assisting the conductivity of a material (Metal/Composite/Air). Saint Elmo’s Fire is another phenomena. Composite canopies (of the sheer size of an RV10) on VANS are a new occurrence.  Aluminum conductivity helps keep P static to a minimum and yet for guys who fly in visible or even translucent clouds, the interference on the radio band is unmistakable.  When moving from Day/VFR/Recreation to Night/IFR/Time important flight, P static needs to be addressed and remediated.  Wicks help in both arena. When you introduce a composite cover at the most remote corner of a control surface you are helping defeat the natural discharge of induced voltage (Wingtip, Horizontal, Vertical, Rudder).  

   

IMHO, It is foolishness not to understand the advantage of bonding straps that circumvent control surface bearing connections with a more conductive path.  When a lightning bolt hits, it always departs somewhere.  The welding effect on bearings or bushings is amazing.  We just replaced 45 feet of rivet line (hundreds of blown rivets) in the floor of one of our Air Carrier birds that ventured into it. It was not flying fast, it was not flying high, it was just flying in the damp Pacific North Wet. With or without static wicks, I would hope every builder makes a conscious choice before dismissing “Bonding Straps”.   It takes a Mega ohm meter to measure such infinitesimal increments of voltage.  Static can be in the millivolt range and still take a bite out of a piece of expensive avionics.  

   

We use ProSeal on each connection point of bonding straps to reduce corrosion, moisture penetration and mechanical strains from movement.  

   

John – KUAO  

Do not Archive  

           

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

   

Michael, then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know about any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.    

   

John Jessen  

  ~328 (buildus interruptus)  

         

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:41 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

I am not planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with the tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but to each his own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise, corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the trailing edges IMHO.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

         

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

 Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Bonding Strap Location  

For those of you that decided to install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing.  

   

Also, what are you using for the strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php with a crimped ring terminal?  

   

Thanks,

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

What about using something like LPS  3?

  

 Michael

 Do not archive



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W.  Cox

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:46 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

  

It’s applied over the  head of the (correctly torqued) fastener at the terminal end of each braid  eyelet.  It seals the fasteners, eyes and braid to the object.  It is  much like doing the process inside the fuel cell. Conductivity is through the  braid material, through the crimped eye (in contact with the mount point).   The superior path provides a level of protection to direct the damaging voltage  away from an “arc across a bearing or bushing face”.  It’s the arc that is  so damaging. 

  

It is a bitch to remove  when the braid becomes worn and requires replacement.  It is ProSeal, which  in some camps is a dirty word. 

  

Proseal is also used in  other areas to complete a fayed, fillet between the airframe and an attachment  item (like a bracket). 

  

John 

     

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Specketer

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 4:07  PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap  Location

 

   

When using  Proseal, how is it used so as not to interupt  conductivity?

  

Gary

  

40274

  	  Quote: 	
		     

-----Original    Message-----

From:    owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:53    PM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap    Location   

P static    and Lightning Dissipation are two different electrical events, both of which    are centered around assisting the conductivity of a material    (Metal/Composite/Air). Saint Elmo’s Fire is another phenomena. Composite    canopies (of the sheer size of an RV10) on VANS are a new occurrence.     Aluminum conductivity helps keep P static to a minimum and yet for guys who    fly in visible or even translucent clouds, the interference on the radio band    is unmistakable.  When moving from Day/VFR/Recreation to Night/IFR/Time    important flight, P static needs to be addressed and remediated.  Wicks    help in both arena. When you introduce a composite cover at the most remote    corner of a control surface you are helping defeat the natural discharge of    induced voltage (Wingtip, Horizontal, Vertical, Rudder).   

    

IMHO, It    is foolishness not to understand the advantage of bonding straps that    circumvent control surface bearing connections with a more conductive    path.  When a lightning bolt hits, it always departs somewhere.  The    welding effect on bearings or bushings is amazing.  We just replaced 45    feet of rivet line (hundreds of blown rivets) in the floor of one of our Air    Carrier birds that ventured into it. It was not flying fast, it was not flying    high, it was just flying in the damp Pacific North Wet. With or without static    wicks, I would hope every builder makes a conscious choice before dismissing    “Bonding Straps”.   It takes a Mega ohm meter to measure such    infinitesimal increments of voltage.  Static can be in the millivolt    range and still take a bite out of a piece of expensive    avionics.   

    

We use    ProSeal on each connection point of bonding straps to reduce corrosion,    moisture penetration and mechanical strains from movement.   

    

John –    KUAO   

Do not    Archive   

                



   

From:    owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:18    AM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap    Location

   

    

Michael,    then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it    only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know    about any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.        

    

John    Jessen   

     ~328 (buildus interruptus)   

             



   

From:    owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael    Sausen)

Sent: Thursday, March    09, 2006 9:41 PM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Bonding Strap    Location   

I am not    planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight    controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with    the tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find    a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't    necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but    to each his own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight    controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise,    corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the trailing    edges IMHO.   

    

Michael    Sausen   

RV-10    #352 Working on Fuselage   

Do Not    Archive   

Recent RV-10 Build    Activity   

             



   

From:    owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45    PM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bonding Strap    Location   

For those of you that decided to    install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding    straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but    wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing.   

    

Also, what are you using for the    strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php    with a crimped ring terminal?   

    

Thanks,

johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

LPS 3 is one step down from Hard Coat and we use it on fasteners which are exposed to the weather, such as inspection covers.  It slows but does not stop the corrosion.  Corrosion can kill a low resistance bonding strap. It is a great film to be applied on surfaces which are exposed to outside ambient temperatures without benefit of cabin heat.  On our Air Carrier fleet you will find it in the nose (forward of the pressure bulkhead), tail (aft of the pressure bulkhead) and below the heated floor where humidity lurks, just waiting for condensation.  

   

The ProSeal is found where bonding straps bridge airframe to moving control surface or landing gear doors.  Those surfaces which get fuel, oils, grime and grit.  I don’t want to take anything away from LPS3 and as the Builder, it is your choice of material, technique and final construction quality.  These are not certified airframes.  That is part of the thrill.  

   

John  

Do not Archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:34 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

   

What about using something like LPS 3?  

   

Michael  

Do not archive  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:46 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

It’s applied over the head of the (correctly torqued) fastener at the terminal end of each braid eyelet.  It seals the fasteners, eyes and braid to the object.  It is much like doing the process inside the fuel cell. Conductivity is through the braid material, through the crimped eye (in contact with the mount point).  The superior path provides a level of protection to direct the damaging voltage away from an “arc across a bearing or bushing face”.  It’s the arc that is so damaging.  

   

It is a bitch to remove when the braid becomes worn and requires replacement.  It is ProSeal, which in some camps is a dirty word.  

   

Proseal is also used in other areas to complete a fayed, fillet between the airframe and an attachment item (like a bracket).  

   

John  

           

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Specketer

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 4:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

     

When using Proseal, how is it used so as not to interupt conductivity?  

    

Gary  

    

40274  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:53 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

P static and Lightning Dissipation are two different electrical events, both of which are centered around assisting the conductivity of a material (Metal/Composite/Air). Saint Elmo’s Fire is another phenomena. Composite canopies (of the sheer size of an RV10) on VANS are a new occurrence.  Aluminum conductivity helps keep P static to a minimum and yet for guys who fly in visible or even translucent clouds, the interference on the radio band is unmistakable.  When moving from Day/VFR/Recreation to Night/IFR/Time important flight, P static needs to be addressed and remediated.  Wicks help in both arena. When you introduce a composite cover at the most remote corner of a control surface you are helping defeat the natural discharge of induced voltage (Wingtip, Horizontal, Vertical, Rudder).  

   

IMHO, It is foolishness not to understand the advantage of bonding straps that circumvent control surface bearing connections with a more conductive path.  When a lightning bolt hits, it always departs somewhere.  The welding effect on bearings or bushings is amazing.  We just replaced 45 feet of rivet line (hundreds of blown rivets) in the floor of one of our Air Carrier birds that ventured into it. It was not flying fast, it was not flying high, it was just flying in the damp Pacific North Wet. With or without static wicks, I would hope every builder makes a conscious choice before dismissing “Bonding Straps”.   It takes a Mega ohm meter to measure such infinitesimal increments of voltage.  Static can be in the millivolt range and still take a bite out of a piece of expensive avionics.  

   

We use ProSeal on each connection point of bonding straps to reduce corrosion, moisture penetration and mechanical strains from movement.  

   

John – KUAO  

Do not Archive  

             

  

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen

 Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 6:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

  

   

Michael, then why do C-182's have wicks?  Certainly we fly faster.  Is it only when we are in the clouds that the wicks are needed?  I don't know about any of this, so may put them on to just keep the elephants away.    

   

John Jessen  

  ~328 (buildus interruptus)  

           

  

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 9:41 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Bonding Strap Location  

I am not planning on putting on static wicks but I do plan on trying to bond the flight controls.  How?  Not sure yet.  You have the right idea with the tinned strap though.  Several people are doing wicks and you can find a rough guesstimate on Tim's site for a starting point.  I don't necessarily believe that we are in the speed ranges that need wicks yet, but to each his own.  The electrical potential difference between the flight controls and the main airframe is more likely to cause problems (RF noise, corrosion, etc) than actual static build up at the trailing edges IMHO.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

           

  

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tommy Norman

 Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:45 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Bonding Strap Location  

For those of you that decided to install static wicks with bonding straps, where are you attaching the bonding straps?  I have looked at the production spam cans around the airport but wanted to see what other -10 builders are doing.  

   

Also, what are you using for the strap and what size?  Something like this http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/copperbraid.php with a crimped ring terminal?  

   

Thanks,

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: Bonding Strap Location

When  using Proseal, how is it used so as not to interupt  conductivity?

 Gary

 40274

 [quote]   

   --

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