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Fuels

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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: Fuels

Since the Blog is tuned in to Fueling i have a question. (or two )

has anyone had problems using auto fuel with 10% Ethanol. Florida has decried that all fuel in the state WILL have 10% Ethanol by 2009. it is impossible to purchase fuel now that does not have Ethanol. i was using Amoco White ( now BP ) to prevent the orange stains but now even it has Ethanol. 

the engine manual says it is permissible but i am concerned about corrosion in the aluminum tanks, deterioration of rubber hoses and internal rubber & plastics in fuel valves and pumps.

While we are on the subject of fuel has any one found a way to stop spraying it out the fuel tank vents when making a sharp turn with near full tanks. on a sod runway it makes a large brown circle ( Grass Kill ) when performing a 180 on the grass. 



thanks



Bobby

601 XL

N131BP

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Fuels

Bobby,



You didn't mention which engine you are using. But as point out the engine isn't the only place Ethanol can cause a problem. It probably isn't the place it could cause the biggest problem.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Fuels

I Ethanol mixes with water,  why could you not pour Water into fuel with Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of the fuel?   It goes with the thought that the way to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker and check after time if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.



Juan



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Fuels

And what octane fuel do you have when you are finished with that science experiment?

 	  amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote: 	
		  I Ethanol mixes with water,  why could you not pour Water into fuel with Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of the fuel?   It goes with the thought that the way to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker and check after time if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.



Juan



--

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Al Hays

Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 42
Location: Gore, VA

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: Fuels

Juan,



While you might be able to do that, I'm pretty sure you would wind up  

an unacceptably low octane in the remaining fuel without the ethanol.



I've been using STA-BIL� gasoline stabilizer for gas engined home and  

farm equipment and it seems to be effective.  Now I see Marine  

Formula STA-BIL� ethanol treatment being advertised and recommended  

for all engines.  I would probably be using that if I was flying with  

autogas which might have ethanol in it.  Neither of my projects is  

going to be flying very soon but I intend to have them capable of  

using regular pump autogas.  One of my biggest worries is corrosion  

in the thin aluminum gas tanks.



Al

N701GH and N5892H rexerved



On Jul 18, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Juan Vega wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>



 I Ethanol mixes with water,  why could you not pour Water into fuel  

 with Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of the fuel?   It goes with  

 the thought that the way to check for Ethanol is to add water to  

 fuel in a marked fuel beaker and check after time if the level of  

 water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.



 Juan

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Fuels

and does octane get impacted by leaching ethanol out, and if you buy 89 and the plane can run on 87 what is the impact,  and is it worth bothering to take the ethanol out if the engine can take ethanol in the first place?

its an interesting question that opens a pandora's box

Juan 



--

ronlee

Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 141

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Fuels

Don't forget you will lose ten percent of your fuel. That ups the price by $0.40 cents or so.

_________________
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: Fuels

What will happen if the service station has water in it (most do) and the  fuel has ethanol in it, how much water will the 10% ethanol absorb? Will this  amount of water and ethanol cause a problem with engine  operation? 

 Jerry of Ga

  In a message dated 7/18/2008 4:02:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net writes:

 [quote]-->    Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega    <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net>



I Ethanol mixes with water,  why    could you not pour Water into fuel with Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of    the fuel?   It goes with the thought that the way to check for    Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker and check after time    if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in    Fuel.



Juan



--

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: Fuels

A little bit of water will dissolve in the gasohol. A little bit more will cause the water/alcohol mixture to settle out, leaving a lower octane gasoline floating above it. I don't know exactly how much water it takes to initiate the separation but I do know that 10 percent water mixed with E10 will do it. This is the standard test for ethanol in gasoline. I suspect it takes a whole lot less than 10% water to cause the separation.



So any water in the station's tank will either end up in your gas tank or it will settle out on the bottom of their tank along with the alcohol and you will be filling up with low octane gas. In either case, it won't do good things to your engine.



On Jul 18, 2008, at 9:58 PM, Jeyoung65(at)aol.com (Jeyoung65(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote]  What will happen if the service station has water in it (most do) and the fuel has ethanol in it, how much water will the 10% ethanol absorb? Will this amount of water and ethanol cause a problem with engine operation? 

 Jerry of Ga

  In a message dated 7/18/2008 4:02:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net) writes:

 [quote] [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Fuels

It's interesting that we've been advised by someone  in the industry that the wholesalers add the ethanol to the truckloads.  It  isn't added earlier due to the water absorbsion problem.  So guess what  happens if there is water in the truck or in the retailers' tanks!

 Then when you go up to 8000 ft and the fuel in your  tank gets colder that water can separate and collect at the bottom of your fuel  tank.

 I don't want to go there.

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk  VIII

    [quote][b]

Jeyoung65(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Fuels

Thanks for the information. Not what I wanted to hear, BUT is what I was  afraid of.   Jerry of Ga

  

  In a message dated 7/19/2008 4:25:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  bryanmmartin(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  A little    bit of water will dissolve in the gasohol. A little bit more will cause the    water/alcohol mixture to settle out, leaving a lower octane gasoline floating    above it. I don't know exactly how much water it takes to initiate    the separation but I do know that 10 percent water mixed with E10    will do it. This is the standard test for ethanol in gasoline. I suspect it    takes a whole lot less than 10% water to cause the separation.    



   So any water in the station's tank will either end up in your gas tank or    it will settle out on the bottom of their tank along with the    alcohol and you will be filling up with low octane gas. In either case, it    won't do good things to your engine.

   

      On Jul 18, 2008, at 9:58 PM, Jeyoung65(at)aol.com (Jeyoung65(at)aol.com) wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		            What will happen if the service station has water in it (most do) and      the fuel has ethanol in it, how much water will the 10% ethanol absorb? Will      this amount of water and ethanol cause a problem with engine      operation? 

     Jerry of Ga

          In a message dated 7/18/2008 4:02:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)      writes:

      	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net (amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net)>



I        Ethanol mixes with water,  why could you not pour Water into fuel        with Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of the fuel?   It goes        with the thought that the way to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel        in a marked fuel beaker and check after time if the level of water        increased, indicating Ethonal in      Fuel.



Juan



	




	




         -- 

   Bryan Martin

   N61BM, CH 601 XL,

   RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

   do not archive.

   

   



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