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dougsire
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37
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 Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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I finished up my 3 day visit to Airventure and this is what I gather as to the differences and reasons for the new 650 model:
Reasons:
-They want to have part commonality across all distribution channels (Zenith, AMD)
-Sometimes you just need to introduce a new model to keep interest going
Similarities and differences. The 650 is the 601 with the following differences (might be more):
-New rudder. It has more of an angle and just looks better. No one had a better explanation here except for looks. The nose skin and nose rib are larger and the bottom angle is different so can't really redo a current rudder.
-Canopy. No brainer here. It looks nicer, has a better locking mechanism, has greater headroom, is easier to build and has rollover protection. A retro kit will be available for 601s.
-Angle of incidence on wing has changed. They have slighltly lowered the rear spar to provide a lower nose position and better visibility. Roger said this was what the Europeans were used to so they decided to change it. No performance reasons were indicated. Otherwise the wing is the same.
-Additional fuselage bracing. Sebastian said there was some additional bracing on the rear fuselage.
-Possible aileron balancing. Sebastian also indicated that they may add aileron balancing which would consist of an extra rib added at the end of the aileron with the balance inside the wing (not like Brazilian one).
-There may well be other small changes but is still the same basic structure.
It is interesting that the "loose cable" theory is now the official company line.
Doug Sire
601 XL
Billings, MT
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backstagelive(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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The thickness of the rear spar attachment has been thickened to what look
like somewhere between .090 to .125 on the 650 out here on the field in
Oshkosh. Also, you will not loose any baggage room if you retro-fit the new
650 canopy to your 601. Sabastian said you can keep your old baggage
compartment bulkhead in place. The nice part is you can put in the new
bulkhead in front of the old one and install a BRS chute! If you want some
pictures send me an E-mail and I will forward them to you. I don't know how
to post pictures so if someone out there wants to post them please do.
Joe in Oshkosh.
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Iberplanes
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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the XL is cheaper than the 650,
XL Complete kit: 15890 u$s
650 Airframe Kit + Finishing Kit: 18500 u$s
I would adapt the canopy to my XL, and thats all.
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
[quote][b]
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_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain |
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planes_by_ken(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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As I looked and asked about the 650 this is what I noticed:
The rudder sweep back comes from lengthening the top fuselage rudder
hinge fitting. The bottom forward rudder leading edge fairing 6T5-4 is
now wider at the top that the bottom. I did not notice if the rudder
chord had increased.
The diagonal stiffeners added between the fuselage uprights are a hold
over from the European version. They use a thinner skin. I was told
the diagonals were standard L angles. It was also mentioned that .016"
L angles would probably be sufficient.
I did not hear about possible aileron balance weights. Putting an extra
rib at the outboard end would allow for relatively easy retrofitting. I
had thought about adding an extra rib near the center of the aileron for
a possible balance weight, just in case.
A comment on cable tension: this is absolutely important on any
airplane. If the controls end up feeling stiff - get used to it. If
the structure bends or cracks fix that. Leaving the cable tension loose
is as much of a change from the design as changing the spar design. The
cables will stretch and the structure will settle. I will check it
every few flights for maybe the first 50 -100 hours. Also checking when
the weather warms up and cools down through the year is not a bad idea.
Erring to the high side is much better than erring to the low side.
Someone suggested that I write an article for the newsletter on setting
cable tension. I will see what I can do.
Ken Lilja
dougsire wrote:
| Quote: |
I finished up my 3 day visit to Airventure and this is what I gather as to the differences and reasons for the new 650 model:
Reasons:
-They want to have part commonality across all distribution channels (Zenith, AMD)
-Sometimes you just need to introduce a new model to keep interest going
Similarities and differences. The 650 is the 601 with the following differences (might be more):
-New rudder. It has more of an angle and just looks better. No one had a better explanation here except for looks. The nose skin and nose rib are larger and the bottom angle is different so can't really redo a current rudder.
-Canopy. No brainer here. It looks nicer, has a better locking mechanism, has greater headroom, is easier to build and has rollover protection. A retro kit will be available for 601s.
-Angle of incidence on wing has changed. They have slighltly lowered the rear spar to provide a lower nose position and better visibility. Roger said this was what the Europeans were used to so they decided to change it. No performance reasons were indicated. Otherwise the wing is the same.
-Additional fuselage bracing. Sebastian said there was some additional bracing on the rear fuselage.
-Possible aileron balancing. Sebastian also indicated that they may add aileron balancing which would consist of an extra rib added at the end of the aileron with the balance inside the wing (not like Brazilian one).
-There may well be other small changes but is still the same basic structure.
It is interesting that the "loose cable" theory is now the official company line.
Doug Sire
601 XL
Billings, MT
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jmaynard
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 09:06:35PM -0400, Ken Lilja wrote:
| Quote: | The cables will stretch and the structure will settle. I will check it
every few flights for maybe the first 50 -100 hours. Also checking when
the weather warms up and cools down through the year is not a bad idea.
Erring to the high side is much better than erring to the low side.
|
Mathieu Heintz told me he recommended I flip the seat forward and make sure
the aileron cables twanged when I pluck them on preflight. I've added it to
the list. (I'm not too concerned about my AMD Zodiac's cables loosening,
since they're pretensioned when the ends are swaged on, but it's still
something I'll check.)
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
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_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC |
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amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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Jay,
you hould be concerned on the AMD, every cable on anny plane stretches, AMD does great work, but cables stretch regardless of maker.
Piece of mind Bro, check them just for that and you will be fine.
Juan
--
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jmaynard
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: 601 vs 650 |
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On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 10:03:21AM -0400, Juan Vega wrote:
| Quote: | Jay Maynard wrote:
>Mathieu Heintz told me he recommended I flip the seat forward and make
>sure the aileron cables twanged when I pluck them on preflight. I've
>added it to the list. (I'm not too concerned about my AMD Zodiac's cables
>loosening, since they're pretensioned when the ends are swaged on, but
>it's still something I'll check.)
you hould be concerned on the AMD, every cable on anny plane stretches, AMD does great work, but cables stretch regardless of maker.
Piece of mind Bro, check them just for that and you will be fine.
|
Oh, I know they stretch. I said I'm not too worried, not that I'm not
worried at all...and that's why it goes on the preflight list.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
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_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC |
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