Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Elevator Trim systems

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


All,
I am reworking a Model 5 that originally had the Electric Elevator Trim
Screw. I was intending on changing it to the trim tabs on the elevator and
replacing the Electric ElevatorTrim Screw with the hard link similar to the
retro kit that Skyster was offering. I was recently challenged on that
thought and was wondering what those of you out there flying either the
adjustable horizontal stab, the elevator trim tabs or both feel about the
subject? Which do you like and why?
Thanks,
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
aldaniels(at)fmtc.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


I have built and flown both. Both are good, the manual system is faster
to set for touch and go's, the electric is a little easier to fine tune
to hold altitude. The manual also is much heavier on the stick while in
the flair and on the ground, unless of course you use John McBeans super
system. The best is IMHO the electric with an oversized elevator, but I
like to be able to roll the tailwheel before the mains touch, even with
big tires. The down side is that at that AOA the wing will really pay
off and drop you so if you are a little high when that happens you drop
it in. I got a set of VG I am wanting to try to see if that helps, but
even if you drop it in if you hold the stick back you are down safe and
short.
Cudnohufsky's wrote:
All,
I am reworking a Model 5 that originally had the Electric Elevator Trim
Screw. I was intending on changing it to the trim tabs on the elevator and
replacing the Electric ElevatorTrim Screw with the hard link similar to the
retro kit that Skyster was offering. I was recently challenged on that
thought and was wondering what those of you out there flying either the
adjustable horizontal stab, the elevator trim tabs or both feel about the
subject? Which do you like and why?
Thanks,
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Why do you want to remove the trim screw Lloyd? Although there may be
others, I can only recall one failure that caused any sort of problem.
Deke
Quote:
All,
I am reworking a Model 5 that originally had the Electric Elevator Trim
Screw. I was intending on changing it to the trim tabs on the elevator and
replacing the Electric ElevatorTrim Screw with the hard link similar to
the

Quote:
retro kit that Skyster was offering. I was recently challenged on that
thought and was wondering what those of you out there flying either the
adjustable horizontal stab, the elevator trim tabs or both feel about the
subject? Which do you like and why?
Thanks,
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:28 am    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


I have only flown the electric on a Model 5 and 6. I like it fine. No real problem in the pattern. It could use a little more up trim for use with flaps. It is very sensitive at cruise speed but that could be altered with Matt Dralle's Governor. If you decide to go with the manual I would be interested in buying you linear actuator.


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
AMuller589(at)aol.com
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Our trim brushes wore out at 60 hours but found a place in Conroe, TX who
replaced for $16. They are sensitive at cruise and not quite adequate for full
flaps but are all around O.K. We think we would prefer mechanical though never
tried them for comparison.


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Deke,
The screw was destroyed by the previous owner in a ground loop incident, in
rebuilding I was pondering 2 thoughts, ONE, I fit the Model 4 I previously
had with an elevator trim tab operated by a push pull cable to a lever I
mounted just in front of my flap lever, it was fast and easy to adjust and I
could trim for landing by feeling the position of the lever against the
center bar, no need to look, it was also very easy and fast to trim for
hands off flying, I liked it. TWO, some time after Skystar made the Model 5
they offered a retro kit to replace the screw with trim tabs, why would they
offer the retro kit if the screws were so well liked? Since I would have to
replace the screw to stay with that system I was thinking I may want to move
to the trim tab option. (Which I know I like, it's fast to trim, and it's
simple) I would hate to spend the money on a new screw and find I am not
satisfied with the response or ergonomics of the system. That's my dilemma.
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Maxwell,
Screw was destroyed in a ground loop incident by previous owner.
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


FYI, I have a complete flight control system to include the jackscrew
assembly and all parts forward and aft required to use it. Other Model 5
parts as well.
Rick


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


some time after Skystar made the Model 5
Quote:
they offered a retro kit to replace the screw with trim tabs, why would
they
offer the retro kit if the screws were so well liked? >>>

I think they changed the system because the manufacturer of the jack screw
didn't like them being used in Aircraft. I may be wrong in this, but in
talking to the guys flying them, I think they generally like them fine.
Lowell


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


I few many hours with the electric system. I think it was a cost driven
move to the mechanical set up.
Rick


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
bnn(at)nethere.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


At 04:46 PM 1/4/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
I fit the Model 4 I previously
had with an elevator trim tab operated by a push pull cable to a lever I
mounted just in front of my flap lever, it was fast and easy to adjust and I
could trim for landing by feeling the position of the lever against the
center bar, no need to look, it was also very easy and fast to trim for
hands off flying, I liked it.

LLoyd,
What did you use for the cable and tab? How did you do the tab end
of things? I'm agonizing over the same thing on my IV with completed elevator.
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
Ceashman(at)aol.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Quote:
LLoyd,
What did you use for the cable and tab? How did you do the tab end

Quote:
of things? I'm agonizing over the same thing on my IV with completed
elevator.

Quote:
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan

Guy. A long time ago I visited Skystar and had a flight in their IV I believe
it had the 618
engine.
Anyway, that aircraft was fitted with a RANS trim system (the guys at SS told
me that).
When building my IV, I purchased the RANS trim system from Aircraft Spruce (I
cannot find it in the AS catalogue right now). It was not that difficult to
install but I had to make a bracket to hold the spin wheel that I could screw
to the floor.
Look at the trim at this link.
Greetings. Eric.
http://www.shoprans.com/AccessoriesAircraft.htm


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Guy,
The trim on my 4 was an after thought so I made a trim tab from light gauge
aluminum, about 14 ga. it was about 3.5" x 20" and was attached to the
trailing edge of the elevator with a piano hinge via SS pop rivets. The
cable was a single solid push pull wire in a wire would casing, very similar
to what is used on lawnmowers etc. but a little heavier. I purchased mine at
a hardware store. For the lever in the cockpit I fabbed out of aluminum flat
stock and made a friction system similar to the flap handle friction system
in the earlier Kitfox's To attach the push pull wire to the handle I made a
swivel fitting from a small piece of aluminum square stock, drilling a hole
in the end to accept the push pull cable and 2 holes at 90 degrees drilled
and tapped for set screws to lock it in. A 3/16" cross hole was drilled at
the other end to bolt it to the handle. Fabricated a holder for the wires
sheath just in front of that, I think the other end was similar. The cable
was run through the fuselage and exited below the horizontal stab at the
rear. 2 stand-off horns were fabbed from aluminum, one was riveted to the
trim tab and the other to the cross bar in the elevator.
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
bnn(at)nethere.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


At 06:08 PM 1/5/2006, you wrote:
Guy,
The trim on my 4 was an after thought so I made a trim tab from light gauge
aluminum, about 14 ga. it was about 3.5" x 20"

What did you think of the size. Was it about right? Too large? Too small?
Quote:
stock and made a friction system similar to the flap handle friction system

How did the friction system work? I bought a small throttle quadrant that
uses friction but I was worried it wouldn't hold.
...
Quote:
The cable
was run through the fuselage and exited below the horizontal stab at the
rear. 2 stand-off horns were fabbed from aluminum, one was riveted to the
trim tab and the other to the cross bar in the elevator.

Did you run the cable out the angled member of the elevator? Or did the
cable make some kind of an "S" to meet the tab perpendicular to it?
Thanks for the help. By the way, I got your sketch off-line and it
clarified how you handled the back end. Thanks again.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Guy,
The trim tab size was correct for my 4, however it was an XL Model with a
gross of 950 and a VNE of 104mph. I was running a 503 that would cruise
around 70 and it worked great. I know Al has now installed a 582 and as far
as I know he is still using the same trim system. The friction system on the
handle worked great as well, I never had it slip on me. Another thought is
what the RV guys are running, they are using a push pull very similar to a
throttle, has a push button on the end to lock / unlock and make large
adjustments and can also twist from the lock position for micro adjust. Have
never talked to anyone about how well they like it. I ran the cable out from
the fuselage just under the horizontal stabilizer at about 1/2 the chord.
The trim tab was close to the rudder side of the elevator and the stand-off
was off set to line up with the structural tube in the elevator. Cable
stayed close to the bottom of the horizontal stab and did have a bit of an
"S" shape to it. I also put O-Rings on the cable to keep it from chaffing
the fabric / finish.
Lloyd


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Lloyd,
As with anything I'm sure opinions will vary.. and both trims have pros and
cons...... I'll stick with the screw jack over the offered manual trim. If
someone wants the manual trim that SS was offering I know of one available..
Cannot guarantee all the parts were delivered.
Regarding the screw jack.. If memory serves me there were 3 different
actuators..
To the best of my knowledge, and I have looked in to this... there was one
failure. I do not recall which model actuator but I believe it was an
earlier model.
Skystar changed to the manual trim for 2 reasons:
1 The manual system was a commonly asked for item - Could it be an option ?
2 Motion Systems stopped selling them to Skystar.. supposedly because they
were going on aircraft.
I have looked into replacements and can most likely get them.. However, I
was very cautious not to let them know they were going on aircraft.....
Have a Safe New Year !!
John McBean
www.sportplanellc.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
bnn(at)nethere.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


At 02:16 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote:
Quote:
Another thought is
what the RV guys are running, they are using a push pull very similar to a
throttle, has a push button on the end to lock / unlock and make large
adjustments and can also twist from the lock position for micro adjust.

Thanks Lloyd,
I've seen this system and though it looks great in an RV, it's a
bit large for a IV. I've already got the friction lever installed so I'm
happy to hear it worked for you. Thanks again for all the help.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582 / 99.9% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


I have added a photo to the sportflight.com photo share under damage/incidents of a failed Pittman style electric trim actuator. This failure occurred during the installation process when I tried to nudge the actuator into position. I have since obtained a Warner actuator (the type with a reported in-flight failure) and have added a reinforcing bracket at the failure point. Failure analysis indicates that a lateral load of only a few degrees can cause either of these actuators to fail this way. Lesson learned: Make sure things line up before installing the actuator and remember this isn't plumbing your doing.
Joel


- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Elevator Trim systems Reply with quote


Thanks for the heads up Joel,
I think you learned this lesson the cheap way, even
though it cost you $, only the actuator broke and not
you and your plane. Smile
I wonder if this lateral loading was the real problem
in previous failures?
Kurt S. S-5/NSI turbo
--- Joel Mapes <foxfloatflyer(at)hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
I have added a photo to the sportflight.com photo
share under damage/incidents of a failed Pittman
style electric trim actuator. This failure occurred
during the installation process when I tried to
nudge the actuator into position. I have since
obtained a Warner actuator (the type with a reported
in-flight failure) and have added a reinforcing
bracket at the failure point. Failure analysis
indicates that a lateral load of only a few degrees
can cause either of these actuators to fail this
way. Lesson learned: Make sure things line up before
installing the actuator and remember this isn't
plumbing your doing.

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group