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A question about post curing?

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jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

Dear Listers,

 

A question about post curing our epoxy parts. Â Today we built ourselves an "oven" for baking our parts at the appropriate 40-50 degree celsius for post cure. Â We built a 16' X 4' X 4' enclosure out of foil claded 4X8 sheets of insulation foam. Â The box is backed up to a basement brick fireplace (no open flames) in which I would like to place a suitable heating element. Â I also have use of an attic fan to low air around the cavity.Â 



 

Has anybody attempted this before? Â And if so what did you use to heat the space. Â I went to a website that helps you calculate the heating requirements for 256 cubic feet of space (at) 50 degrees celsius came to about 8900 btu's, however, heat does build up and I want a consistent heat over a period of hours therefore I will need a thermostat of sorts I would guess.



 

Any advice out there? Â I'm not a Â thermo engineer just an individual Europa builder who's looking for an inexpensive way to do the job.



 

Thank you for your time and consideration.



 

Cheers and Happy Holidays,



 

Sincerely,



 

Jeff Â and Peter Paris Â Kit# A012 Monowheel Classic

     Cooking School Become a Top Chef!  Click here for more information

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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

Jeffrey C

  

 Keep it simple. No need for complicated thermostatic control. I used 2 fan heaters plus a larger fan to circulate air. Use a couple of thermometers with remote probes C one for the upper and one for the lower level. Then do it by trial and error: let the heat build up until it reaches the required temperature C the heaters should have multiple heat settings. I had to modify the heaters to bypass the thermostatic safety cutout. Start the job in the morning and monitor it through the day. Position the heaters such that they don't blow directly onto the work pieces. 

  

 Karl



 





  Date: Wed C 17 Dec 2008 19:21:55 -0500

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

From: jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com

Subject: A question about post curing?



Dear Listers C 



 A question about post curing our epoxy parts.  Today we built ourselves an "oven" for baking our parts at the appropriate 40-50 degree celsius for post cure.  We built a 16' X 4' X 4' enclosure out of foil claded 4X8 sheets of insulation foam.  The box is backed up to a basement brick fireplace (no open flames) in which I would like to place a suitable heating element.  I also have use of an attic fan to low air around the cavity. 

 



 Has anybody attempted this before?  And if so what did you use to heat the space.  I went to a website that helps you calculate the heating requirements for 256 cubic feet of space (at) 50 degrees celsius came to about 8900 btu's C however C heat does build up and I want a consistent heat over a period of hours therefore I will need a thermostat of sorts I would guess.

 



 Any advice out there?  I'm not a  thermo engineer just an individual Europa builder who's looking for an inexpensive way to do the job.

 



 Thank you for your time and consideration.

 



 Cheers and Happy Holidays C

 



 Sincerely C

 



 Jeff  and Peter Paris  Kit# A012 Monowheel Classic

                 Cooking School  Become a Top Chef!   Click here for more information     [quote][b]

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

Jeffrey C

  

 That oven looks great C but it might have been better to have the foil on the interior.

Keep it simple. No need for complicated thermostatic control. I used 2 fan heaters plus a larger fan to circulate air. Use a couple of thermometers with remote probes C one for the upper and one for the lower level. Then do it by trial and error: let the heat build up until it reaches the required temperature C the heaters should have multiple heat settings. I had to modify the heaters to bypass the thermostatic safety cutout. Start the job in the morning and monitor it through the day. Position the heaters such that they don't blow directly onto the work pieces. 

 

Karl

 





  Date: Wed C 17 Dec 2008 19:21:55 -0500

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

From: jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com

Subject: A question about post curing?



Dear Listers C  



 A question about post curing our epoxy parts.  Today we built ourselves an "oven" for baking our parts at the appropriate 40-50 degree celsius for post cure.  We built a 16' X 4' X 4' enclosure out of foil claded 4X8 sheets of insulation foam.  The box is backed up to a basement brick fireplace (no open flames) in which I would like to place a suitable heating element.  I also have use of an attic fan to low air around the cavity. 

 



 Has anybody attempted this before?  And if so what did you use to heat the space.  I went to a website that helps you calculate the heating requirements for 256 cubic feet of space (at) 50 degrees celsius came to about 8900 btu's C however C heat does build up and I want a consistent heat over a period of hours therefore I will need a thermostat of sorts I would guess.

 



 Any advice out there?  I'm not a  thermo engineer just an individual Europa builder who's looking for an inexpensive way to do the job.

 



 Thank you for your time and consideration.

 



 Cheers and Happy Holidays C

 



 Sincerely C

 



 Jeff  and Peter Paris  Kit# A012 Monowheel Classic

                 Cooking School  Become a Top Chef!   Click here for more information     [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

Hi! Jeffrey  

You won’t be able to imitate my scheme without an insulation lined covered trailer but for what it’s worth I had two 2kw fan/convector heaters with their own thermostats.  

But I regularly monitored the enclosed area with a digital thermometer by going into it. Seriously much better to start it early morning and the temperature “climb” and “decent” need to be over long periods to allow the polystyrene to normalize gradually. My trailer allowed me to do all parts including the fuselage simultaneously, the wings and all flying surfaces being cured fully assembled and adequately supported.  

I find myself somewhat pleased you have reminded me why I built such an expensive trailer !  

IMHO don’t just rely on thermostat control …….don’t trust it take regular readings from different locations.  

Regards  

Bob Harrison G-PTAG  

   

--

rick.sivier(at)btinternet
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

Hi Jeff and Peter  

   

I used a small fan heater to heat my oven, but with a thermostat from a hot water tank wired into the mains supply.Â  The thermostat was simply dangled inside the oven somewhere around the middle.Â  You will need a more accurate thermometer as well to set the temperature on the thermostat and I found that there was a bit of trial and error involved in setting the thermostat correctly.Â  My thermometer has a max and min display and I found that the temperature varied from 40Â° to 50Â°, so the control wasnâ€™t that accurate, but sufficient for these purposes and stopped any potential overheating.  

   

Regards  

   

Rick  

     

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris

 Sent: 18 December 2008 00:22

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: A question about post curing?  

  

   

Dear Listers,    

   

    

A question about post curing our epoxy parts.  Today we built ourselves an "oven" for baking our parts at the appropriate 40-50 degree celsius for post cure.  We built a 16' X 4' X 4' enclosure out of foil claded 4X8 sheets of insulation foam.  The box is backed up to a basement brick fireplace (no open flames) in which I would like to place a suitable heating element.  I also have use of an attic fan to low air around the cavity.   

    

   

    

Has anybody attempted this before?  And if so what did you use to heat the space.  I went to a website that helps you calculate the heating requirements for 256 cubic feet of space (at) 50 degrees celsius came to about 8900 btu's, however, heat does build up and I want a consistent heat over a period of hours therefore I will need a thermostat of sorts I would guess.  

    

   

    

Any advice out there?  I'm not a  thermo engineer just an individual Europa builder who's looking for an inexpensive way to do the job.  

    

   

    

Thank you for your time and consideration.  

    

   

    

Cheers and Happy Holidays,  

    

   

    

Sincerely,  

    

   

    

Jeff  and Peter Paris  Kit# A012 Monowheel Classic  

      

                                            

                       

Cooking       School                                 

Become a Top Chef!                                  

Click here for more information                                         

                     

   

        [quote][b]

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

Jeff & Peter, I also built my oven out of 2 in polystyrene insulation blocks 

with foil backing. With an XS mine only had to be big enough to take 

ailerons, flaps & tail planes. I sealed mine at both ends, except for a 

small exit hole at ground level at one end and heated it with a single hair 

dryer poked through the foam at the other end. A thermometer poked through 

the side wall kept a check on temp. For Ampreg I was aiming at 16 hrs at 50 

C, and the system delivered this perfectly. I guess if you have a big enough 

system to take complete wings then you might need 2 hairdryers. Don't forget 

to support the cooked items generously to discourage them from bending! Best 

of luck! David Joyce, G-XSDJ

---

jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

Thanks guys for the response.  We went to good old Harbor Freight and picked up a blower fan and a heating element and some 4 dollar temp. probes and we warmed up our oven to 45 degrees C no problem.



All parts are loaded and tomorrow we bake our parts for post curing.



Thanks for the help.



Jeff and Peter Paris  Monowheel kit# A012



PS All sides of our oven are foil!

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

grroberts3(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

I went solar with mine.  Of course, it helps if your in Arizonia in  July.  I peaked at 160, and held 130 for over 8 hours.

  

  

 GRoberts A187

  

  

  

 On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:21:55 -0500 "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com (jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com)>  writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Dear    Listers,

   



   A question about post curing our epoxy parts.  Today we built    ourselves an "oven" for baking our parts at the appropriate 40-50 degree    celsius for post cure.  We built a 16' X 4' X 4' enclosure out of foil    claded 4X8 sheets of insulation foam.  The box is backed up to a basement    brick fireplace (no open flames) in which I would like to place a suitable    heating element.  I also have use of an attic fan to low air around the    cavity. 

   



   Has anybody attempted this before?  And if so what did you use to    heat the space.  I went to a website that helps you calculate the heating    requirements for 256 cubic feet of space (at) 50 degrees celsius came to about    8900 btu's, however, heat does build up and I want a consistent heat over a    period of hours therefore I will need a thermostat of sorts I would    guess.

   



   Any advice out there?  I'm not a  thermo engineer just an    individual Europa builder who's looking for an inexpensive way to do the    job.

   



   Thank you for your time and consideration.

   



   Cheers and Happy Holidays,

   



   Sincerely,

   



   Jeff  and Peter Paris  Kit# A012 Monowheel Classic

                                                                                                                                                             Cooking School                                    Become a Top Chef!                                     Click here for more                  information

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rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

Be careful. The surface temperature  and the air temperature, even only a couple of millimetres away, can be very  different.  In motor racing you often see a 10 degree C difference between  air and track temperatures.

  

 In the UK I imagine you can easily see  a surface temperature of a wing left in the sun being over 40  C.  Anyway I cured my surfaces in the open on a hot July couple  of days and I'm still here.

  

 Perhaps someone has some accurate  figures?

  

 Cheers

  

 Rick

  

 G-RIKS Tri

  

  



   From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  grroberts3(at)juno.com

Sent: 19 December 2008 02:52

To:  europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: A question about  post curing?

 

  

 I went solar with mine.  Of course, it helps if your in Arizonia in  July.  I peaked at 160, and held 130 for over 8 hours.

  

  

 GRoberts A187

  

  

  

 On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:21:55 -0500 "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com (jeffrey-j-paris(at)excite.com)>  writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Dear    Listers,

   



   A question about post curing our epoxy parts.  Today we built    ourselves an "oven" for baking our parts at the appropriate 40-50 degree    celsius for post cure.  We built a 16' X 4' X 4' enclosure out of foil    claded 4X8 sheets of insulation foam.  The box is backed up to a basement    brick fireplace (no open flames) in which I would like to place a suitable    heating element.  I also have use of an attic fan to low air around the    cavity. 

   



   Has anybody attempted this before?  And if so what did you use to    heat the space.  I went to a website that helps you calculate the heating    requirements for 256 cubic feet of space (at) 50 degrees celsius came to about    8900 btu's, however, heat does build up and I want a consistent heat over a    period of hours therefore I will need a thermostat of sorts I would    guess.

   



   Any advice out there?  I'm not a  thermo engineer just an    individual Europa builder who's looking for an inexpensive way to do the    job.

   



   Thank you for your time and consideration.

   



   Cheers and Happy Holidays,

   



   Sincerely,

   



   Jeff  and Peter Paris  Kit# A012 Monowheel Classic

                                                                                                                                                             Cooking School                                    Become a Top Chef!                                     Click here for more                  information                             

	




____________________________________________________________  

Earn your associate's criminal justice degree and start your  career training today.



  17/12/2008  00:00

 

 

  Checked by AVG.

 00:00

     [quote][b]

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

Hi Jeff



We post cured in a sausage:

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album213&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



It rolls up to a small bundle when not in use, it is not anywhere near as insulated as a piece of insulation, but not bad with a blanket of bubble wrap draped over the top.



We have a muffin fan that keeps it inflated and a zipper to enter, and 2 thin aluminium poles to keep erected when you open the zipper. 



Using at least one 1500 watt resistive heater that articulates (has a fan inside). Needed to mutilate the thermostat and recalibrate and put in a higher temperature thermal fuse. Can't remember if that higher temperature fuse is a "piece of safety wire", or had a thermal fuse on hand. I think I had a copier thermal fuse I used. This works well in summer. If it's cool out, needed is a second heater, a cheap resistive oil heater from Lowes or Home Depot works well, again you need to mutilate. Just keep in mind that those oil heaters can leak. Never had one leak in post cure tent, but unmutilated sample that keeps edge off cold in our build tent when we are not there did in fact leak. Plan for a leak if you use one. Typical they have a few heat settings.



Like others indicated, sample plenty of areas, you don't want to hurt anything. 



Good idea to clamp aluminium angle to trail edge of anti-servo tabs, stabilators, ailerons and flaps to prevent waves.



I think 1500 watts is fine for you. We slowly ramped up temperatures, and slowly ramped down. At post cure time I had some reason for that, but forgot why.



Wayne took to bathtub and scrubbed real hard with plenty hot water and plain old green Palmolive to remove any blush, finger prints and other??



Best handle with cotton gloves after wash, post cure and fill right away.

http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album219&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php



Ron Parigoris

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

On Friday, December 19, 2008, at 03:03  PM, rparigoris wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Best handle with cotton gloves after wash, post cure and fill right 

 away.


	


So tell me guys...is everyone post-curing BEFORE filling?



I seem to recall a thread where post-curing was recommended AFTER 

filling...but perhaps I'm mistaken.



Fred

A194

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This message has been scanned for viruses and

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

given you are adding more resin during the fill

I was planning on AFTER filling, which wold

make post cure the last job B4 you paint i guess.



craig



--

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:57 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

Craig



I was more concerned to post cure the structure rather than the filler on 

top.

But both ought to be a good idea and you would rather do it once than twice!

Happy Christmas

JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327

do not archive

---

Rowland_Carson

Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Cheltenham, England

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

At 2008-12-19 19:04 -0800 Fred Klein wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  So tell me guys...is everyone post-curing BEFORE filling?


	


Fred - I had my control surfaces etc post-cured in my inspector's 

oven before filling. As the epoxy in the filler is not going to 

contribute any structural strength, I see no benefit in post-curing 

it.



Haven't worked out what to do about post-curing the internal layups 

in my wing - the inspector's oven is not big enough for them. I did 

hold the recommended 5 days at 25C for optimum strength in the Redux 

bonds.



regards



Rowland

-- 

| Rowland Carson  LAA #16532    http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/

| 1170 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI  e-mail <rowil(at)clara.net>

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

I thought one of the reasons for post cure was also to stop your paint job

from crazing (lots of little micro cracks) which would require post cure of

filler

as well



craig



--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: A question about post curing?

Rowland & Wilma Carson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Fred - I had my control surfaces etc post-cured in my inspector's oven 

 before filling. As the epoxy in the filler is not going to contribute 

 any structural strength, I see no benefit in post-curing it.. Rowland

Rowland
	


there might be a slight advantage in post curing the filler, it will be 

harder. It might also pre shrink it, so sand flatter, and maybe the 

weave won't show through after a few months.

Graham

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: A question about post curing?

I postcured whole plane just before painting.

It was 8 hours (at) 50C.

I heated my 200 cubic m shop using 20kW gas heater w fan  and one 11 kW electric heater w fan.

I was there all time long just to control temps (it was like very mild sauna).

It was still quite hard experience because those gas burners took all the oxygen away.



Raimo OH-XRT

---

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