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Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?
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yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

I am glad to know that you have verified that with such a calibrated instrument Dennis.  I sure would like to have one of those things!  You were also correct about the P vs. the PF deal.  I hate to be wrong, but it appears that I clearly was, and Kevin was there to verify it from the very beginning!  

  

 Mark Bitterlich

 

 

 

   From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 4:15:46 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 DIV { MARGIN:0px;}   I acquired the "fix" from our friend George Coy.

  

 All good input Mark.  I also agree one can pull the throttle back until one can see a slight decrease in MP and save fuel.  This is proven by watching the JPI fuel flow instrument installed in my airplane as well as others.

  

 Dennis

  

 [quote] ---

nc69666(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

No it is not inherent to all Radials.  Have a lot of time behind them and the are usually smooth as can be on throttle application, unless something is not operating correctly or out of adjustment..  Gary      CJ,   N22YK

 

 

 --

nc69666(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Kevin, You are correct that Pressure Carbs develope Carb Ice, I have had it happen on a Navion with a E-225 , and a Bendix PS-5  Carb,. It happend on taxi and warm up. it was a chilly morning and a bit of ground fog was hanging around the airport, Was running the engine at 1200 RPM to wait for the oil temp to come up. all of a sudden the engine began to get slightly rough so I waited and watched the Tach start dropping off RPM, let it get ot about 900 RPM and then pulled the carb heat on, within just a few seconds the RPM came back up to 1200..  So gentelman, Pressure Carbs will develop Carb Ice..

 

 Gary... CJ,    N22YK

 

 

 --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Actually Mark, the JPI FS-450G is relatively  inexpensive.  Gulf Coast and Pacific Coast Avionics are/were offering a  $175 mail-in rebate making the instrument about $305.  LOTS of  information for $305.  Easy install.  If you decide to order one, make  sure you order the FS-450G because the "G" instrument includes the Floscan model  231 transducer.

 Dennis

 [quote]   ---

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

GREAT INFO!  

  

 Thanks!

  

 Mark

 

 

 

   From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:25:46 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 DIV { MARGIN:0px;}   Actually Mark, the JPI FS-450G is relatively inexpensive.  Gulf Coast and Pacific Coast Avionics are/were offering a $175 mail-in rebate making the instrument about $305.  LOTS of information for $305.  Easy install.  If you decide to order one, make sure you order the FS-450G because the "G" instrument includes the Floscan model 231 transducer.

 Dennis

 [quote] ---

eddiemoranii(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Not that anyone cares.... but just to add to our knowledge base.  My M14 is a "B", had the same problem and was cured by the jet mod.



Eddie Moran



--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Yak Pilot <yakplt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]From: Yak Pilot <yakplt(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 1:31 PM



GREAT INFO!  

  

 Thanks!

  

 Mark

 

 

 

   From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:25:46 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 #yiv1188514940 DIV { MARGIN:0px;}   Actually Mark, the JPI FS-450G is relatively inexpensive.  Gulf Coast and Pacific Coast Avionics are/were offering a $175 mail-in rebate making the instrument about $305.  LOTS of information for $305.  Easy install.  If you decide to order one, make sure you order the FS-450G because the "G" instrument includes the Floscan model 231 transducer.

 Dennis

 [quote] ---

eddiemoranii(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

By the "same problem" I was referring to the hesitation when "advancing" the thrust lever.



--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Eddie Moran <eddiemoranii(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]From: Eddie Moran <eddiemoranii(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: M14PEngines-List: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 1:45 PM



Not that anyone cares.... but just to add to our knowledge base.  My  M14 is a "B", had the same problem and was cured by the jet mod.



Eddie Moran



--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Yak Pilot <yakplt(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]From: Yak Pilot <yakplt(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 1:31 PM



GREAT INFO!  

  

 Thanks!

  

 Mark

 

 

 

   From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:25:46 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 #yiv881181695 #yiv1188514940 DIV { MARGIN:0px;}   Actually Mark, the JPI FS-450G is relatively inexpensive.  Gulf Coast and Pacific Coast Avionics are/were offering a $175 mail-in rebate making the instrument about $305.  LOTS of information for $305.  Easy install.  If you decide to order one, make sure you order the FS-450G because the "G" instrument includes the Floscan model 231 transducer.

 Dennis

 [quote] ---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Eddie, the B and the P have the same  carburetor.  The only difference between the B and the P is the nose  case.  R and R the nose case on the B with a nose case from a P and you  have a P engine.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Dennis,

      I do not pretend to know all the  differences between the engines, but I do know the M14P and M14B have a lot of  differences including the carburetor. Simply changing nose cases does not do it.  The M14B was not intended for aerobatic use and needs some internal changes to  allow for inverted operations. The accessory case drive and the oil pump are  different. 

  

 Be careful about these things.

  

 George Coy

 Coy Aircraft Sales

 714 Airport Rd.

 Swanton VT 05488

 802-868-5633 off

 802-363-5782 cell

 george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)

 SKYPE george.coy

  



   From:  owner-m14pengines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A.  Dennis Savarese

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 4:59 PM

To:  m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Why  would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

 

 Eddie, the B and the P have the same  carburetor.  The only difference between the B and the P is the nose  case.  R and R the nose case on the B with a nose case from a P and you  have a P engine.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

I appreciate the enlightenment George.  Up  until your email and based on other inputs from some pretty well informed people  (at least I thought so anyway), I deduced the B could be made into a P by  simply changing the nose case.  I surely won't make that mistake  again.

 Dennis

  

  

 [quote]   ---

george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

The only reason that I am a little familiar with this is that we  had several new M14B engines converted to M14PF engines for a customer a few  years ago. The work was done at Motorstar, the Romanian factory. The  were  surprised at the many differences and commented that the internal  accessory drive shafts and gears were much more substantial than the M14P shafts  and gears. I also know that the few M14B instillations have had trouble with the  oil pump fittings clearing the motor mounts. 

  

 George Coy

 Coy Aircraft Sales

 714 Airport Rd.

 Swanton VT 05488

 802-868-5633 off

 802-363-5782 cell

 george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)

 SKYPE george.coy

  



   From:  owner-m14pengines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A.  Dennis Savarese

Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 8:21 AM

To:  m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Why  would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

 

 I appreciate the enlightenment George.  Up  until your email and based on other inputs from some pretty well informed people  (at least I thought so anyway), I deduced the B could be made into a P by  simply changing the nose case.  I surely won't make that mistake  again.

 Dennis

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Thanks for the info George.

 Merry Christmas,

 Dennis

 [quote]   ---

mikspin

Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 66

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

George or Monty,



Can you comment on the M14B or D having different cam profiles and if so, does it affect their rated horsepower?



Also, Monty, in your discussions with the Vendenyev guys, did you talk about the reverse loading deal?  As you well know, you see plenty of that in competition acro as opposed to airshow stuff(not that there's an absence of it in airshows either).  



Thanks



Mike Hastings

eddiemoranii(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Back in May of 2007 there was a thread on Matronics M14 List about the Manifold pressure that I was getting on my M14B.  I was getting about 905 mm Hg which seemed high.  Here is a response from Dennis on that subject.



 	  Quote: 	
		  [b]Eddie,What RPM are you seeing and what RPM are you setting with the prop governor?  The M14P should develop about 880 MM (+,- 10) at sea level, on a standard day at WOT.  905 seems a bit high, but that could also be due to the accuracy or calibration of the manifold pressure gauge.  What does the Manifold pressure gauge read with the engine shut down?Dennis""[/b]I am wondering now if the "B" might really be putting out quite a bit more power?  I think Dennis or George mentioned that the supercharger on a "B"was 8.65/1 instead of 8/1.Anyway, my Moose does not go

 inverted (at least on purpose) and the engine seems to be very strong.Merry Christmas to all,Eddie Moran[b][/b] 	


--- On Tue, 12/23/08, mikspin <acromike(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote]From: mikspin <acromike(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, December 23, 2008, 10:08 AM



[quote]--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "mikspin"

<acromike(at)gmail.com>



George or Monty,



Can you comment on the M14B or D having different cam profiles and if so, does

it affect their rated horsepower?



Also, Monty, in your discussions with the Vendenyev guys, did you talk about

the reverse loading deal?  As you well know, you see plenty of that in

competition acro as opposed to         [quote][b]

george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

The M14D does have a different profile on the cam. These engines were our

creation of turning a helicopter engine into an experimental aircraft

engine.  

George Coy

Coy Aircraft Sales

714 Airport Rd.

Swanton VT 05488

802-868-5633 off

802-363-5782 cell

george.coy(at)gmail.com

SKYPE george.coy



--

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Never confirmed personally, and I wish someone who knows for sure WOULD say so, but I also heard that the "B" ,model spins the blower harder.  Not sure of the exact ratio but between the P and PF speed.  

  

 Mark Bitterlich

  

 

 

 

   From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:23:23 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 Thanks for the info George.

 Merry Christmas,

 Dennis

 [quote] ---

MarkWDavis

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Here's the info I found from several different  sources:

  

  M14P                                                             M14B

 Blower ratio:  8.16 to  1                                     8.65 to 1

 Comp ratio:  6.3 to  1                                       6.2  to 1

 HP: 290  continuous                                         300  continuous

 HP: 360 for 10  minutes                                     350 for 30 minutes

  

 A little higher blower ratio traded for a little  lower compression ratio.  Maybe so you can run it at the higher continuous  power settings for a longer period?

  

 Mark Davis

 N44YK



 [quote]   ---

danhorton(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

I dunno know nothin' about nothin'.....but I would like to wish all my 

friends here a very Merry Christmas!



Dan Horton

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

Wasn't the B model intended for helicoptor use?  If so, then what you said would make sense.  

  

 Thanks for confirming the info Mark 

  

 Merry Christmas!

  

 Mark Bitterlich



 

   From: Mark Davis <mark(at)pld.com>

To: m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:12:46 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 DIV { MARGIN:0px;}   Here's the info I found from several different sources:

  

  M14P                                                            M14B

 Blower ratio:  8.16 to 1                                    8.65 to 1

 Comp ratio:  6.3 to 1                                       6.2 to 1

 HP: 290 continuous                                         300 continuous

 HP: 360 for 10 minutes                                    350 for 30 minutes

  

 A little higher blower ratio traded for a little lower compression ratio.  Maybe so you can run it at the higher continuous power settings for a longer period?

  

 Mark Davis

 N44YK



 [quote] ---

george(at)gesoco.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

The Kamov Helicopter was designated the M14 V26. It was my  understanding that the M14B was produced for the AN14 light twin. (despite the  wickapedia entry)

  

 George Coy

 Coy Aircraft Sales

 714 Airport Rd.

 Swanton VT 05488

 802-868-5633 off

 802-363-5782 cell

 george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)

 SKYPE george.coy

  



   From:  owner-m14pengines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak  Pilot

Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 4:10 PM

To:  m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Why  would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?

 

  Wasn't the B model intended for helicoptor use?  If so, then what you  said would make sense.  

  

 Thanks for confirming the info Mark 

  

 Merry Christmas!

  

 Mark Bitterlich



 

   From: Mark Davis  <mark(at)pld.com>

To:  m14pengines-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:12:46  PM

Subject: Re: Re:  Why would my Yak 52 m14p lose power?



 DIV { 	MARGIN: 0px }   Here's the info I found from several different  sources:

  

  M14P                                                             M14B

 Blower ratio:  8.16 to  1                                     8.65 to 1

 Comp ratio:  6.3 to  1                                       6.2  to 1

 HP: 290  continuous                                         300  continuous

 HP: 360 for 10  minutes                                     350 for 30 minutes

  

 A little higher blower ratio traded for a little  lower compression ratio.  Maybe so you can run it at the higher continuous  power settings for a longer period?

  

 Mark Davis

 N44YK



 [quote]   ---

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