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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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Scott - could you please explain in detail what the defect is with the OEM Vans parts and why the Matco axle resolves the issue
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:15 am Post subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle |
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Hey Mike,
Here's the repost, Later, - Lew
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Hertner <effectus>
Hi Everyone,
I want to share with you the permanent fix that I have come up with for
the front axle spacer problems we have been having lately. We have seen
everything from gouging of outer yokes to the bearing spinning on the
axle due to the loss of bearing pre-load.
I decided to take a real close look at the system to see what the root
problem is and I found that the spacers provided with the kit, both the
steel ones delivered with the kit initially and the aluminum ones sent
out as a fix do not interface with the bearing properly. This is due to
two issues.
The first is that the mating surface on the bearing for the spacer is
curved. I contacted Timken Bearing and they sent me the dimensioned
cross section of that bearing which showed that the curved mating
surface was a compound curve that melded two radii. This is not an easy
surface to mate to.
The second issue was that of the wall thickness of the aluminum spacers
set out by Van's to replace the initial steel ones. The wall thickness
of these aluminum spacers is .250in. The mating surface of the bearing
is approx. .187in. This is the steel contact area inside of the rubber
bearing seal. This meant that the spacer was pre-loading on the rubber
bearing seal instead of the steel portion of the bearing. In many cases
this has resulted in the loss of the pre-load as the rubber
deteriorates. Consequently, there were bearings spinning, yokes being
gouged and loose wheels which add to bearing wear and shimmy.
I initially thought that I would take the same approach as Ross Farnham
and machine profiles on the end of new steel spacers so that the
interface between them and the bearing was close to identical. I called
Ross and talked it over with him and he said that if he had more time to
put into it he would have made one of the spacers adjustable. I asked
him if I could run with that and he agreed it would be the best fix.
So, what I have been able to design is a system where there is a perfect
interface between the spacers and the bearings by utilizing the Timken
specifications and the accuracy of CNC machining. I have also been able
to design a robust and accurate adjustment mechanism into one of the
spacers so that the pre-load can be adjusted without having to take the
wheel apart.
Integrated into the spacer design are notches that accept the heads of
10-24 socket-head cap screws installed on the inner face of the yoke.
These restrict the spacers from being able to spin on the axle. As well,
you will now be able to accurately torque the front wheel bolt because
it no longer has any relationship to the pre-load of the bearings.
The screw adjustment ring is locked in place by two 1/4-20 socket-head
cap screws that have drilled heads so they can be safety wired.
All of these new components including the hardware is made from
stainless steel for durability and corrosion resistance.
I just finished installing a set in my front wheel assembly and it goes
together and adjusts very easily. I will be offering these for sale
through Mike Lauritsen at Cleaveland Tools. The kits will include all
hardware instructions and the drill guide used to locate the
anti-rotation screws.
You can go to my Blog site and read about these and see pictures of the
RV-10 as well as the RV6/7/8/9 components. It is located at the
following address: http://www.kitaircraftmods.com
I feel as though I have now installed a permanent fix to this problem
and I hope that if you are interested in the kit I have put together you
will go and visit the Cleaveland Tools site. The first 10 production
kits of each variant will be available sometime in mid January but
please leave your name with them if you are interested so we can get a
handle on how many are going to be required.
Many thanks for reading this long post.
Dave Hertner
RV-10 Builder #10164
Effectus AeroProducts Inc.
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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orchidman
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle |
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I didn't wait for Van's to correctly solve the problem. I have gone with the Grove nose wheel.
Was very easy to install and I think it removes the original problem.
http://www.groveaircraft.com/rvnose.html
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Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying) |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:54 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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I am a little confused about the different products ou tthere which address this issue. Matco C $60.00 or the axle Cleaveland is selling C $170.00 which I thought was marketed by an independant...Aircraft Mods blog guy. Then I recall there also was another person who made the YouTube videos or are these the same person. Which one is distributed by CLeaveland????
JOhn G.
[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:05 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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I ordered a set from Matco this weekend. It looks like a
pretty workable and inexpensive solution...cheap enough that
it would be nice to see it become a standard Van's part.
Right now, it appears there is a sale price as well, and
I paid $54.32. It basically replaces the entire axle
assembly and allows it to be preload adjustable. After
hearing from Scott how well it worked out, I decided to
finally get rid of my setup. I plan to take some photos
like Scott did and document the process and give some
feedback, and add it to my site. This all has some
similarities to Dave Hertner's setup which also looks
real good. His I know is stainless steel, which would
help explain the cost difference.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lew Gallagher wrote:
| Quote: |
Hey Mike,
Here's the repost, Later, - Lew
Hi Everyone,
I want to share with you the permanent fix that I have come up with for
the front axle spacer problems we have been having lately. We have seen
everything from gouging of outer yokes to the bearing spinning on the
axle due to the loss of bearing pre-load.
I decided to take a real close look at the system to see what the root
problem is and I found that the spacers provided with the kit, both the
steel ones delivered with the kit initially and the aluminum ones sent
out as a fix do not interface with the bearing properly. This is due to
two issues.
The first is that the mating surface on the bearing for the spacer is
curved. I contacted Timken Bearing and they sent me the dimensioned
cross section of that bearing which showed that the curved mating
surface was a compound curve that melded two radii. This is not an easy
surface to mate to.
The second issue was that of the wall thickness of the aluminum spacers
set out by Van's to replace the initial steel ones. The wall thickness
of these aluminum spacers is .250in. The mating surface of the bearing
is approx. .187in. This is the steel contact area inside of the rubber
bearing seal. This meant that the spacer was pre-loading on the rubber
bearing seal instead of the steel portion of the bearing. In many cases
this has resulted in the loss of the pre-load as the rubber
deteriorates. Consequently, there were bearings spinning, yokes being
gouged and loose wheels which add to bearing wear and shimmy.
I initially thought that I would take the same approach as Ross Farnham
and machine profiles on the end of new steel spacers so that the
interface between them and the bearing was close to identical. I called
Ross and talked it over with him and he said that if he had more time to
put into it he would have made one of the spacers adjustable. I asked
him if I could run with that and he agreed it would be the best fix.
So, what I have been able to design is a system where there is a perfect
interface between the spacers and the bearings by utilizing the Timken
specifications and the accuracy of CNC machining. I have also been able
to design a robust and accurate adjustment mechanism into one of the
spacers so that the pre-load can be adjusted without having to take the
wheel apart.
Integrated into the spacer design are notches that accept the heads of
10-24 socket-head cap screws installed on the inner face of the yoke.
These restrict the spacers from being able to spin on the axle. As well,
you will now be able to accurately torque the front wheel bolt because
it no longer has any relationship to the pre-load of the bearings.
The screw adjustment ring is locked in place by two 1/4-20 socket-head
cap screws that have drilled heads so they can be safety wired.
All of these new components including the hardware is made from
stainless steel for durability and corrosion resistance.
I just finished installing a set in my front wheel assembly and it goes
together and adjusts very easily. I will be offering these for sale
through Mike Lauritsen at Cleaveland Tools. The kits will include all
hardware instructions and the drill guide used to locate the
anti-rotation screws.
You can go to my Blog site and read about these and see pictures of the
RV-10 as well as the RV6/7/8/9 components. It is located at the
following address: http://www.kitaircraftmods.com
I feel as though I have now installed a permanent fix to this problem
and I hope that if you are interested in the kit I have put together you
will go and visit the Cleaveland Tools site. The first 10 production
kits of each variant will be available sometime in mid January but
please leave your name with them if you are interested so we can get a
handle on how many are going to be required.
Many thanks for reading this long post.
Dave Hertner
RV-10 Builder #10164
Effectus AeroProducts Inc.
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Painting when it's 60+ degrees!
Piddling with wiring and avionics.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 24230#224230
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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The one that Scott posted about is a new solution developed directly by Matco (manufacturer of our wheels) to address the short comings of how the wheels mount to our fork type RV’s. The one that Dave Hertner is developing is very similar and will be sold by Cleaveland.
Nothing against Daves fine work but given the one that Scott posted is actually developed by Matco and is 1/3rd the price I just ordered a Matco.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:54 AM
To: RV 10 group
Subject: RE: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
I am a little confused about the different products ou tthere which address this issue. Matco, $60.00 or the axle Cleaveland is selling, $170.00 which I thought was marketed by an independant...Aircraft Mods blog guy. Then I recall there also was another person who made the YouTube videos or are these the same person. Which one is distributed by CLeaveland????
JOhn G.
> Subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
> From: Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:58:49 -0800
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>
>
> Scott - could you please explain in detail what the defect is with the OEM Vans parts and why the Matco axle resolves the issue
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224223#224223
>
>===
>
>
> | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:12 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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Cleaveland has Dave Hertner's (Aircraft Mods Blog) parts. Yes,
they're about $170. Matco is selling these direct, to help
fix the inadequacies in Van's axles so that their own wheels
don't get a bad reputation. Matco's are about $60. (Currently
less)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Gonzalez wrote:
| Quote: | I am a little confused about the different products ou tthere which
address this issue. Matco, $60.00 or the axle Cleaveland is selling,
$170.00 which I thought was marketed by an independant...Aircraft Mods
blog guy. Then I recall there also was another person who made the
YouTube videos or are these the same person. Which one is distributed by
CLeaveland????
JOhn G.
> Subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
> From: Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:58:49 -0800
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Scott - could you please explain in detail what the defect is with
the OEM Vans parts and why the Matco axle resolves the issue
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 24223#224223
>
>===
>
>
>
*
*
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle |
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Hey Tim,
Is this the Matco page?
http://www.matcomfg.com/AXLEASSEMBLYA24125INCH-idv-3657-1.html
Later, - Lew
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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yep
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=38336
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 9:32 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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Ah yes, sorry I didn't include a link before.
Also, Scott was asking on my behalf and here is an email that
they sent via him, regarding what you need to order:
-------------------------
"The WHLAXLE24 nose wheel axle is now linked on the home page
of our website. the address is http://www.matcomfg.com
We are offering them at a very good price! He will need two of the
WHLA24SP spacers as well as the WHLAXLE24 (the spacers are the 0.325
thick discs that go on each side of the axle) for the RV-10 installation
<other misc. conversation snipped>
Thanks,
George R. Happ
MATCO mfg"
--------------------------
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Lew Gallagher wrote:
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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The issue with the RV-10 started with Van's supplying steel spacers that would gall the aluminum fork. This was then replaced with aluminum spacers which made the problem better.
It was still difficult to keep the preload constant using the Van's design. This part fixes the issue and locks the axle to the fork with a bolt.
The two place guys felt that the stock Van's system was causing an oscillation along the axis of the wheel axle caused by an increasing and decreasing pre-load on the bearing and this was also a fix for them. The two place guys have a nose gear that is not as strong as the -10 so they may have seen this. I actually believe that that wheel balance is 80% of the problem and the bearing pre-load is 20%. But that is just my opinion. I know they tested this same design on a -9A and saw significant improvement in the vibration of the front wheel but the wheel was also balanced.
It is basically just another part that replaces the Van's design to make something better just like the axle extensions on the mains and the angled bolt on the elevator trim.
Mike, I hope that helps explain the issue a little better.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 10:11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Cleaveland has Dave Hertner's (Aircraft Mods Blog) parts. Yes,
they're about $170. Matco is selling these direct, to help
fix the inadequacies in Van's axles so that their own wheels
don't get a bad reputation. Matco's are about $60. (Currently
less)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Gonzalez wrote:
[quote] I am a little confused about the different products ou tthere which address this issue. Matco, $60.00 or the axle Cleaveland is selling, $170.00 which I thought was marketed by an independant...Aircraft Mods blog guy. Then I recall there also was another person who made the YouTube videos or are these the same person. Which one is distributed by CLeaveland????
JOhn G.
> Subject: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
> From: Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net (Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net)
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:58:49 -0800
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net (Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net)>
>
> Scott - could you please explain in detail what the defect is with the OEM Vans parts and why the Matco axle resolves the issue
>
> --------
> OSH '08 or Bust (busted) be there in "09
> Q/B Kit - wiring and FWF
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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capsteve(at)iflyrv10.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: Nose Wheel Axle |
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John,
I make the IFLYRV10.COM parts and am also the one who tried to describe the problem in the youtube video . Cleaveland aircraft tool has most of my stuff available in their catalog, but I don’t think mike listed my version of the axle yet (its on my website (at)99$). there are some great options for this fix, mine is based on a cessna axle style with end cups instead of sleeves. As tim mentioned, matco has really stepped up offering a nice setup at what seems to be nearly at cost to manufacture.
steve dinieri
From: John Gonzalez (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:53 AM
To: RV 10 group (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Re: Nose Wheel Axle
I am a little confused about the different products ou tthere which address this issue. Matco, $60.00 or the axle Cleaveland is selling, $170.00 which I thought was marketed by an independant...Aircraft Mods blog guy. Then I recall there also was another person who made the YouTube videos or are these the same person. Which one is distributed by CLeaveland????
JOhn G.
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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