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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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 Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:19 am Post subject: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-upMatco RV- |
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I think this is a really important point that everyone needs to remember. Neither of the problems, the mounting configuration nor the incorrect rim, are the fault of Matco. The design of the axle and how it is mounted is entirely Van's design. The reason we do not have the correct rim is Van's desire to keep parts count down and so they use a rim from another RV design and Matco has told Van's that the other rim would be a better choice. Matco has gone out of their way to make their RV-10 customers happy to the extent of allowing us to swap the rims at no more than the cost difference and shipping. They were also concerned enough about all of the problems around the axel design that they came up with their own solution and are selling it at what seems to be their cost.
The Grove stuff sure looks nice and I may have even went that route if it was available, or I knew about it, back then but it's important to note that Matco's products are just fine and they obviously have some exceptional customer service to boot. Just remember the design flaws are just that, Van's design flaws and Van's has chosen not to address them. Don't blame Matco.
Just my $0.02
Michael
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rene(at)felker.com
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:52 am Post subject: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-upMatco RV- |
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I usually don't like to get in these discussions....we all make our own decisions. But, "design flaws" and "wrong wheel" are inaccurate descriptions. For people who are just observing this lists, you would think we all were having a major problem with our nose wheels. From what I know, other than some wear problems with the ordinal spacers, there have not been any adverse affects of the design. I used the thinker spacers and after one year of operation have not had a problem with the stock (vans) wheel. When I removed the wheel from the fork last week, I did note some evidence of wear with the larger spacer, but nothing I would be concerned about. I did go to the new axle, but that was really just me following the heard. I ordered the axle before I had taken the wheel off and if I would have waited I would not have replaced the axle. I think the Matco axle is a better design, but there are hundreds of places on the plane that could be designed differently (better???), but is that just part of the personal preference.
Bottom line for me is:
Vans wheel and axle (with thicker spacers) worked fine for me.
Valve stem clears fork with cap on.
Matco axle appears to be better design, but has more parts and possible failure modes.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-upMatco RV- |
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I am just in the process of doing the axle swap for a friend. His
plane previously had the aluminum axle spacers. I personally don't
see how the Matco axle will make any difference whatsoever (now it
might make a difference with the original axle length, which was
shortened by about 1/16" to get a better preload on the bearings).
One side of the Matco axle has the contour of the bearing, but the
other side does not. The Matco axle does have a bolt that will keep
the axle from spinning, but the shortened axle with the aluminum
spacers was spinning anyway. Also, if the set screw were to come
loose on the matco axle, the axle nut would easily loosen and then the
wheel would spin on the axle and not on the bearings, which would be
worse than the Van's axle with aluminum spacers, just as Rene mentioned.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Feb 12, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Rene Felker wrote:
[quote]
I usually don't like to get in these discussions....we all make our
own decisions. But, "design flaws" and "wrong wheel" are
inaccurate descriptions. For people who are just observing this
lists, you would think we all were having a major problem with our
nose wheels. From what I know, other than some wear problems with
the ordinal spacers, there have not been any adverse affects of the
design. I used the thinker spacers and after one year of operation
have not had a problem with the stock (vans) wheel. When I removed
the wheel from the fork last week, I did note some evidence of wear
with the larger spacer, but nothing I would be concerned about. I
did go to the new axle, but that was really just me following the
heard. I ordered the axle before I had taken the wheel off and if I
would have waited I would not have replaced the axle. I think the
Matco axle is a better design, but there are hundreds of places on
the plane that could be designed differently (better???!
), but is that just part of the personal preference.
Bottom line for me is:
Vans wheel and axle (with thicker spacers) worked fine for me.
Valve stem clears fork with cap on.
Matco axle appears to be better design, but has more parts and
possible failure modes.
Rene' Felker
RV-10 N423CF Flying
801-721-6080
--
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-upMatco RV- |
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Definitely...for ANYONE ordering a finishing kit today, I would
never accept the Van's suggested wheel. It would be crazy to
even have them ship it to you. It should be a mandatory
DROP from the finishing kit list that you order, because
either way, Grove or Matco, you would be better off with
the proper wheel.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pascal wrote:
[quote]
Although one may argue that the cap is not necessary, with my finishing
kit and following the instructions to a "t" there is no way I would have
been able to work a solution to allow me to keep a cap on the valve. I
had close to 1/8th overlap with the cap and 1/16th without, even moving
spacers and such would not have worked for me.
I simply want to let many know that in this case what may not work for
me or Tim may or may not work for someone else. Given the chance get the
right tool for the job, in this case the right rim, you can do what I
did and see if it's going to impact you and if it does replace it or you
can just do as many have said, tell Van's to keep the "wrong" rim and
order the right one directly either Grove or Matco.
I ended up ordering a new rim with the axle, I could have tested the new
axle and seen if that solved the gap issue before possibly needing to
replace the rim but I'm okay with having replaced it with the "right"
piece.
Pascal
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:43 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
>
>
> If you have a Matco nosewheel axle for them, you shouldn't have
> a problem running a valve cap on the stem, regardless of the wheel
> you use. With the "right" wheel you'll have tons of clearance,
> with the "wrong" wheel it'll still work fine. Just note that
> I've had all versions of axles/spacers from Van's, And the
> Matco Axle setup, and I've always had the "wrong" wheel, and
> I STILL have always been able to always run a valve cap. I
> just didn't have as much clearance in the past as I do now, now
> that I have the Matco Axle setup. For that matter, even if
> something weren't yet perfect, it could be fixed easily by
> shaving a 1/16" off of the spacer on one side of the
> axle, and adding a large flat washer on the other side.
> But I hesitate to even say that because that's going to an
> extreme that is probably way unnecessary.
>
> Also, if you order the grove nosewheel, I don't think you want
> the Matco axle assy, from what it sounds like...although I've
> never seen a grove axle assembly picture.
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
> Bob and Karen Brown wrote:
>> OK, earlier this week, I ordered the Matco nosewheel axle for both
>> the RV7A and the RV10. Here’s my question, does that mean I still
>> have to order the Grove nosewheel if I want to put on the darned
>> valve stem cap? If I order just the Grove nosewheel, do I still NEED
>> the Matco nosewheel axle assy? Call me confused…
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:20 PM
>> *To:* Rv
>> *Subject:* Re: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
>> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
>>
>> FWIW, as a late post on my part, I bought the Grove wheel and
>> axel...only thing I can say is it's really nice to have a complete
>> engineered WORKING assembly with no valve stem, bearing preload or
>> spacers to deal with....I hope that this is the final answer to what
>> equates to a very simple engineering solution...the nose wheel never
>> should have generated this much trouble...I knew there would be a
>> point in my life I would regret not getting my P.E. Stamp...
>>
>> Rick Sked
>> 40185
>> Oh so close
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From*: John Gonzalez
>> *Date*: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:49:50 -0800
>> *To*: RV 10 group<rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>> *Subject*: RE: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
>> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
>>
>> Okay. I am about to put the nose whell on the plane C but I am
>> ordering th= e SS axle. If I stick with the current wheel C I know
>> it will work with th= e SS axle C but i will not be able to put the
>> valve stem cap on...is this = correct.=A0
>>
>> If I call Matco and ask for the other half o= f the rim C will it
>> work with the SS axle???
>>
>> I am= inclined to leaving the valve cover off. Talk about making
>> thing complicat= ed...Good grief Charlie Brown!
>>
>> What else am I miss= ing?
>>
>> John
>>
>> > From: pascal(at)rv10builder.net
>> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: Matco RV-10 Nos= ewheel Axle replacement
>> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement wri= te-up
>> > Date: Wed C 11 Feb 2009 18:34:36 -0800
>> >
>> > --> RV10-List= message posted by: "pascal"
>> <=3Bpascal(at)rv10builder.net>
>> >
>> > yep!<= br>>
>> > WHLNW511.25 C just in case
>> >
>> > P
>> >
>> > ------------= --------------------------------------
>> > From: "RV Builder (Michael Saus= en)" <=3Brvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
>> > Sent: Wednesday C February 11 C 200= 9 5:39 PM
>> > To: <=3Brv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>> > Subject: RE: RV10-Li= st: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
>> write-upMatco
>> > RV-10 Nosewh= eel Axle replacement write-up
>> >
>> >>
>> >> <=3Brvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
>> >>
>> >= > Don't recall off hand but they know as soon as you say RV-10.
>> >>
>> >>= michael
>> >>
>> >> --
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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-upMatco RV- |
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that pretty much nails it, however what if you already have the rim or
ordered the finish kit? no worries, as a reminder Tim mentioned a while
back, immediately call Matco and RMA the "untouched rim" and for $20 you'll
get the right rim.
So there is that option either way.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:19 AM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-upMatco
RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
[quote]
Definitely...for ANYONE ordering a finishing kit today, I would
never accept the Van's suggested wheel. It would be crazy to
even have them ship it to you. It should be a mandatory
DROP from the finishing kit list that you order, because
either way, Grove or Matco, you would be better off with
the proper wheel.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
pascal wrote:
>
>
> Although one may argue that the cap is not necessary, with my finishing
> kit and following the instructions to a "t" there is no way I would have
> been able to work a solution to allow me to keep a cap on the valve. I
> had close to 1/8th overlap with the cap and 1/16th without, even moving
> spacers and such would not have worked for me.
> I simply want to let many know that in this case what may not work for me
> or Tim may or may not work for someone else. Given the chance get the
> right tool for the job, in this case the right rim, you can do what I did
> and see if it's going to impact you and if it does replace it or you can
> just do as many have said, tell Van's to keep the "wrong" rim and order
> the right one directly either Grove or Matco.
> I ended up ordering a new rim with the axle, I could have tested the new
> axle and seen if that solved the gap issue before possibly needing to
> replace the rim but I'm okay with having replaced it with the "right"
> piece.
> Pascal
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:43 AM
> To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
>
>>
>>
>> If you have a Matco nosewheel axle for them, you shouldn't have
>> a problem running a valve cap on the stem, regardless of the wheel
>> you use. With the "right" wheel you'll have tons of clearance,
>> with the "wrong" wheel it'll still work fine. Just note that
>> I've had all versions of axles/spacers from Van's, And the
>> Matco Axle setup, and I've always had the "wrong" wheel, and
>> I STILL have always been able to always run a valve cap. I
>> just didn't have as much clearance in the past as I do now, now
>> that I have the Matco Axle setup. For that matter, even if
>> something weren't yet perfect, it could be fixed easily by
>> shaving a 1/16" off of the spacer on one side of the
>> axle, and adding a large flat washer on the other side.
>> But I hesitate to even say that because that's going to an
>> extreme that is probably way unnecessary.
>>
>> Also, if you order the grove nosewheel, I don't think you want
>> the Matco axle assy, from what it sounds like...although I've
>> never seen a grove axle assembly picture.
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Bob and Karen Brown wrote:
>>> OK, earlier this week, I ordered the Matco nosewheel axle for both the
>>> RV7A and the RV10. Here’s my question, does that mean I still have to
>>> order the Grove nosewheel if I want to put on the darned valve stem
>>> cap? If I order just the Grove nosewheel, do I still NEED the Matco
>>> nosewheel axle assy? Call me confused…
>>>
>>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> *ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:20 PM
>>> *To:* Rv
>>> *Subject:* Re: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
>>> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
>>>
>>> FWIW, as a late post on my part, I bought the Grove wheel and
>>> axel...only thing I can say is it's really nice to have a complete
>>> engineered WORKING assembly with no valve stem, bearing preload or
>>> spacers to deal with....I hope that this is the final answer to what
>>> equates to a very simple engineering solution...the nose wheel never
>>> should have generated this much trouble...I knew there would be a point
>>> in my life I would regret not getting my P.E. Stamp...
>>>
>>> Rick Sked
>>> 40185
>>> Oh so close
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From*: John Gonzalez
>>> *Date*: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:49:50 -0800
>>> *To*: RV 10 group<rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>>> *Subject*: RE: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
>>> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement write-up
>>>
>>> Okay. I am about to put the nose whell on the plane C but I am
>>> ordering th= e SS axle. If I stick with the current wheel C I know it
>>> will work with th= e SS axle C but i will not be able to put the valve
>>> stem cap on...is this = correct.=A0
>>>
>>> If I call Matco and ask for the other half o= f the rim C will it
>>> work with the SS axle???
>>>
>>> I am= inclined to leaving the valve cover off. Talk about making thing
>>> complicat= ed...Good grief Charlie Brown!
>>>
>>> What else am I miss= ing?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> > From: pascal(at)rv10builder.net
>>> > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>>> > Subject: Re: Matco RV-10 Nos= ewheel Axle replacement
>>> write-upMatco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement wri= te-up
>>> > Date: Wed C 11 Feb 2009 18:34:36 -0800
>>> >
>>> > --> RV10-List= message posted by: "pascal"
>>> <=3Bpascal(at)rv10builder.net>
>>> >
>>> > yep!<= br>>
>>> > WHLNW511.25 C just in case
>>> >
>>> > P
>>> >
>>> > ------------= --------------------------------------
>>> > From: "RV Builder (Michael Saus= en)" <=3Brvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday C February 11 C 200= 9 5:39 PM
>>> > To: <=3Brv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>>> > Subject: RE: RV10-Li= st: Matco RV-10 Nosewheel Axle replacement
>>> write-upMatco
>>> > RV-10 Nosewh= eel Axle replacement write-up
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> <=3Brvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
>>> >>
>>> >= > Don't recall off hand but they know as soon as you say RV-10.
>>> >>
>>> >>= michael
>>> >>
>>> >> --
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