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check lists, forced landings, and pilots

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brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: check lists, forced landings, and pilots



I felt that my exchange with Roger was starting to get a bit acrimonious

so I quit without saying some of the things I wanted to say. (I guess I

must be getting old.) Pappy then popped up and made a number of my major

points for me. I am glad to see I am not thinking these things by myself.

I am not knocking emergency checklists. Heck, when everything is going

to hell in a hand basket and you are in real fear of dying, your brain

is not going to work too well. Having those emergency checklists burned

into your brain so you *do* something is a wonderful thing. Even if your

brain never comes back on-line there is a good chance that your

emergency check list will have accomplished something positive. It might

even save your life or save your airplane. This is A Very Good Thing.

But the checklist is no substitute for real thought as Pappy pointed

out. If you are thinking you probably have time to try a couple of

things that might not be in the checklist. This is especially true of

things like electrical and pneumatic problems in our airplanes. And it

is still true of a forced landing with a seized engine as you have to

select and evaluate a landing spot. It is amazing just how much time

only a little time is.

And any time you can make a decision ahead of time you are better off as

well. It takes time to make a decision and sometimes you do not have

that time. Engine failure in the pattern is a perfect example. If you

figure out from where in the pattern you can make it back to the runway

and then adhere to that decision you will be able to act more quickly in

the case where the fan stops turning. You can probably even figure out

where your emergency landing sites are going to be in the neighborhood

of your home field and then decide ahead of time whether each will be a

gear-up or gear-down site.

Roger, I apologize for apparently baiting you. I tend to do that,

especially when I perceive someone being dogmatic. For those of you who

have been around since the beginning, you remember how I used to bait

Mike McCoy. The reason I did it was because Mike was dogmatic and

inflexible. Everything was "by the book" with no apparent room for

thought and evaluation. Don't get me wrong; I thought Mike was a very

good pilot and instructor and his departure from the Yak/CJ community is

a loss to all of us. But he would get in these rigid though patterns

that would prevent him from even trying to analyze whether what he

"knew" was right. That was when I would "beat him up" on some topic to

try to get his attention and get him thinking about different

approaches. (<sigh> It didn't work and I get awshit points for not

figuring out a better way of dealing with him. Mea Culpa.)

My experience is such that, Any time someone says to you the words

"always" or "never" with regard to doing something in an airplane, they

are almost always wrong. There will always (ha, I just did it myself) be

an exception and only your brain will tell you when you need to exercise

that exception. Our brains have oversized frontal lobes for a reason.

Regardless of whether you think they are a gift of God or a lucky

survival trait, use them.

And please remember something else: we are all here because we love flying.

--

Brian Lloyd 2243 Cattle Dr.

brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

L39parts(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:52 am Post subject: check lists, forced landings, and pilots



If there wasn't a need for thinking, there wouldn't be a need for a human at

the controls. You could just program a computer with the "always" and

"never" rules and send it off with a load of paying passengers. Look up the

casualty rates for drones if you can't visualize how well this would work on

your own.

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: check lists, forced landings, and pilots



Ron,

That concept is closer than you think. It is said in my community that we are seeing the last manned fighters. This is the last generation of fighter pilots.

It is not very far off at all!

A chilling thought but true none the less.

By the way, the causalty rates for drones is less than that of the carbon units. Unless you are a raghead carrying a mortor tube though the date grove near Fallusia. Damned amazing what a Hell fire launched from a lurking predator will do to ruin an ambush! Not that I'm for taking the human out of the cockpit. I'm not! But it will soon be a fact of life as we know it.

Sad but true, the carbon units will be coming out of the cockpits to be replaced by silicon waffers.

I can see the swagger at the causual bar on Friday night.. "Hi, I'm R2D2 cuttie... does your silicon go all the way to your really nice waffers? ...wanta play with my pigtail and jiggle my antennae?"

Dogmatic Viperdoc

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L39parts(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:44 am Post subject: check lists, forced landings, and pilots



Roger,

I don't doubt what you say, but in fighters it doesn't matter much what the

crash rate is. When they fall out of the sky, they tend to fall on people

we want to kill anyway in places where we won't be sued for damages. How do

you feel about the prospects for pilot-less airliners? Are you looking

forward to riding in them?

I don't have the statistics, so I'll quote someone who has a lot of data and

knows far more about it than I do: Burt Rutan. He said that if the U-2 had

the casualty rate of the Global Hawk drone, the Air Force/CIA would have

used them all up, had to rebuild the factory and make a second production

equal to the first, and they would all be used up by now. He made this

comment at Oskosh a few years ago.

86 U-2s were built and 35 of the 50s/60s production are still in service,

largely because each has pilot that really wants go be at home when the

mission is over. I've never come across a silicon-base unit that cared one

way or the other.

When did the US replace this obsolete old fashion pilot-operated aircraft

that first flew in 1955? It's only an estimate, but currently it's slated

to be completely replaced by Global Hawk in 2011... if they can get the

production rate to exceed the crash rate.

Where would be now without slicone-based high speed digital computers? A

better question might be where would be if we had a couple of Kelly

Johnson's at work in a couple of Skunk Works.

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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: check lists, forced landings, and pilots



Ron,

I'm with you on taking the human out of the cockpit. I suspect we will learn the same lesson we learned with the gun. On the otherhand, I have seen the future...and it is closer than we give credit. The issues that Burt Rutan spoke of are past in many ways.

No, I personally do not want to fly a pilot-less airliner.

The day is coming... we already have commuter train lines and airport shuttles that are remotely controlled.

Doc

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L39parts(at)hotmail.com
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Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: check lists, forced landings, and pilots

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