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oil Usage

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bvossman(at)austin.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: oil Usage

I have 200 hrs on my Jab 2200.  I add 4 oz about  every 3 hours to keep the level between "add oil" mark and 1/3 up the  dipstick.

  

 Bob  Sonex/Jab 2200

   [quote][b]

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:39 am Post subject: oil Usage

I have 440hrs on the 2200a in a MK3-C Kolb My vent system enters a 1 pint catch bottle then vents overboard The airframe stays clean by the vent hose,so all the oil ends up in the bottle.This indicates to me that the vent system on this engine requires some rethinking by Jabiru.My IO-470 continental used less oil in 25 hrs than the Jabiru does in 5hrs.This is a great little engine,they just need to tweak it in the vent and intake systems.

       Gary Aman    Akron Oh 

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   

     	  Quote: 	
		  

	
	
  

 

   

 

   

 

 --

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: oil Usage

That is about what I use on my Jab3300, possibly  slightly more, and also about the same dipstick reading for add of  oil.

  

 Tony Graziano

 Zodiac XL/Jab3300; 506 hrs.

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: oil Usage

What serial number?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:37 AM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] I have 440hrs on the 2200a in a MK3-C Kolb My vent system enters a  

 1 pint catch bottle then vents overboard The airframe stays clean  

 by the vent hose,so all the oil ends up in the bottle.This  

 indicates to me that the vent system on this engine requires some  

 rethinking by Jabiru.My IO-470 continental used less oil in 25 hrs  

 than the Jabiru does in 5hrs.This is a great little engine,they  

 just need to tweak it in the vent and intake systems.

       Gary Aman    Akron Oh





 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: oil Usage

What serial number?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Jul 2, 2009, at 8:51 AM, Bob Vossman wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have 200 hrs on my Jab 2200.  I add 4 oz about every 3 hours to  

 keep the level between "add oil" mark and 1/3 up the dipstick.



 Bob  Sonex/Jab 2200

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject: oil Usage

In a message dated 7/2/2009 9:40:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  zeprep251(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I have 440hrs on the 2200a in a MK3-C Kolb    My vent system enters a 1 pint catch bottle then vents overboard The airframe    stays clean by the vent hose,so all the oil ends up in the bottle.This    indicates to me that the vent system on this engine requires some rethinking    by Jabiru.My IO-470 continental used less oil in 25 hrs than the Jabiru does    in 5hrs.This is a great little engine,they just need to tweak it in the vent    and intake systems.

	


 

  

 The question of oil usage should be factored depending on the mission  profile.

  

 If you have a bird that can be whipped around, the oil can accumulate in  the overflow bottle rather rapidly.  If you always fly like grandma, not  more than 30 degree banks and all positive G's, then you may only be  burning it.  Of course it will depend on where and how you place you   overflow bottle.

  

 It will also depend on wether you overfill your oil regularly.

  

 On a Kolb, you can get hammered around by thermals, so oil can be slopped  up into the vent hose.

  

 Since most Continentals use about a quart in 5-10 hours, that means your  Jabiru must be using  from 2.5 to 5 quarts in 5  hours!!     Seems to me that something else is going  on.   

  

 My experience is that Jabs do not burn much oil, but they can slop it with  the best of them.

  

 Doug Koenigsberg.

  [quote][b]

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: oil Usage

I have put very little in my A-2200 on my Kolb M3X with 32 hrs on it .However,I will pay close attention to what I add from here on out. And the vent catch on my engine seems to be a water/oil mix as it is very thin for it to be all oil not to mention if it was all oil from the crank case,then why is the oil level ok?  After 2-3 hrs I empty the maybe 3-4 oz cup which is about 1/2 full. I simply soak what is in there with a paper towel and discard.



chris ambrose

M3X/Jab

N327CS

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: oil Usage

Lynn,

   Believe it is #1295

   G.Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: oil Usage

Lynn,

For what it's worth...mine is #1228 A-2200.



chris ambrose

M3X/jab

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: oil Usage

Thanks, Gary...it really helps figure out what may be going on with  

the engine if we would all post the serial number when we request  

help....kinda like going to the doctor. He/she always needs to know  

your age.



I'm not familiar with the Kolb...is it a pusher or tractor set-up?   

Does your oil vent line run uphill right after the dipstick tube  

attachment, then down to the bottle? And is the Kolb an exposed engine?



My Kitfox is an enclosed cowl, tractor, and only requires about 10 oz  

of oil addition between 25 hour oil changes.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 689.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Jul 4, 2009, at 12:55 AM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] Lynn,

   Believe it is #1295

   G.Aman

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:19 am Post subject: oil Usage

Thanks, Chris. On another group, they suggest putting all pertinent  

data regarding the aircraft in your signature. (Of course, if you're  

writing to your girlfriend, you can delete all the airplane stuff.)  

That way, someone that may be able to help or comment, will know what  

engine they are dealing with. Saves some dummy like me from having to  

ask. Also, knowing the type of plane the engine is in helps too.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 689.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:18 AM, ces308 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn,

 For what it's worth...mine is #1228 A-2200.



 chris ambrose

 M3X/jab





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51410#251410

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:10 am Post subject: oil Usage

Lynn

    It,s a pusher,the rear of the engine is covered by a molded fairing that smooths airflow into the cooling shrouds.I have only one picture on the computer to send but maybe it will show enough to explain the set-up

            G,Aman 

 

   

 

   

 

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:37 am Post subject: oil Usage

Gary-



I guess I'd have to see where the oil collection bottle is in  

reference to the airflow to know if it seemed right for your  

installation. However, someone with the same setup might chime in and  

help you out. I just re-read your original post, and I'm not sure if  

you're indicating a problem or not. If all the expelled oil ends up  

in the bottle, that seems right to me, unless you think TOO much oil  

is being expelled by the engine. Just keep in mind that if the vent  

overboard is in a high airflow area, maybe a vacuum is being formed  

and helping to draw oil out of the engine.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 693.9 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Jul 5, 2009, at 6:59 AM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] Lynn

    It,s a pusher,the rear of the engine is covered by a molded  

 fairing that smooths airflow into the cooling shrouds.I have only  

 one picture on the computer to send but maybe it will show enough  

 to explain the set-up

            G,Aman

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: oil Usage

Lynn,

   Oil collection bottle is directly behind my seat on the floor of the fuselage.The last of the vent exits thru the floor on the bottom.It extends 1 inch below the bottom and is cut at 90 degrees to the pipe.I could place a short piece of 1/2" copper tube, cut at a 45 degree angle facing forward, in the tube which could slightly pressurize the system.I have had a modified PCV valve in the line 2 inches from the oil stick for some time now,hoping to put the crankcase in a partial vacuum,letting air out but not back in.This slowed the rate of oil loss but perhaps not for the reason it was installed.It may be just giving the oil a place to collect or to ubstruct its movement.

       I can easily test the collector bottle for vacuum, for there is a 1/4 inch line installed from beside my seat thru the lid to near the bottom of the bottle to evacuate collected oil with a vacuum pump. If that test shows vacuum,I will try the angle vent to reverse it.The PCV valve will not let the crankcase be pressurized but could eliminate vacuum in the vent system ahead of it.

      I'm pretty sure that not all of the missing oil from the engine ends up in the collector, but it does not leak externally at all.If it burns it,it burns it,and I can live with that.I would just like to keep the collector dry as possible.

       Thanks for the input.I'll let you know what I find.

                      Gary Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: oil Usage

Lynn and Gary,

I will take some pictures of my set up tomorrow and show you guys. I believe my engine is doing fine on the oil burn...you have to remember that we are talking oz's of oil here..when you only have 2.4 qts it just seems like a lot when a little is missing.when talking on my O-320-E2D we talk in Quarts...not oz's.Lynn...you go to any fly-ins? I will put you on our Mi Kolb email list and maybe we can hook up some morning and talk Jabs !



chris ambrose

M3X/Jab A-2200

N327CS

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: oil Usage

Chris-

I TRY to go to as many fly-ins as possible, but it seems that if I  

plan on going, that alerts the weatherman to throw some showers in my  

path. : )

I got turned off on the Sun 'n' Fun trip for the past three years,  

and the same for the Virginia Festival of Flight for the past two  

years. However, I always make it to Oshkosh, sometimes even in the  

winter. I go to a lot of breakfasts in the Michigan, Indiana, Ohio,  

and sometimes eastern Illinois area. Where are you located, Chris?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 693.9 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:29 PM, ces308 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn and Gary,

 I will take some pictures of my set up tomorrow and show you guys.  

 I believe my engine is doing fine on the oil burn...you have to  

 remember that we are talking oz's of oil here..when you only have  

 2.4 qts it just seems like a lot when a little is missing.when  

 talking on my O-320-E2D we talk in Quarts...not oz's.Lynn...you go  

 to any fly-ins? I will put you on our Mi Kolb email list and maybe  

 we can hook up some morning and talk Jabs !



 chris ambrose

 M3X/Jab A-2200

 N327CS





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51621#251621

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: oil Usage

It may be the difference between your Kolb pusher, and my enclosed- 

engine tractor Kitfox, but your plumbing sounds really convoluted!  

This oil collection business doesn't seem to me to have to be all  

that complicated, but of course in an engine-exposed environment  

things will be different.

Keep us posted will you, Gary?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 693.9 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Jul 5, 2009, at 4:22 PM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] Lynn,

   Oil collection bottle is directly behind my seat on the floor of  

 the fuselage.The last of the vent exits thru the floor on the  

 bottom.It extends 1 inch below the bottom and is cut at 90 degrees  

 to the pipe.I could place a short piece of 1/2" copper tube, cut at  

 a 45 degree angle facing forward, in the tube which could slightly  

 pressurize the system.I have had a modified PCV valve in the line 2  

 inches from the oil stick for some time now,hoping to put the  

 crankcase in a partial vacuum,letting air out but not back in.This  

 slowed the rate of oil loss but perhaps not for the reason it was  

 installed.It may be just giving the oil a place to collect or to  

 ubstruct its movement.

       I can easily test the collector bottle for vacuum, for there  

 is a 1/4 inch line installed from beside my seat thru the lid to  

 near the bottom of the bottle to evacuate collected oil with a  

 vacuum pump. If that test shows vacuum,I will try the angle vent to  

 reverse it.The PCV valve will not let the crankcase be pressurized  

 but could eliminate vacuum in the vent system ahead of it.

      I'm pretty sure that not all of the missing oil from the  

 engine ends up in the collector, but it does not leak externally at  

 all.If it burns it,it burns it,and I can live with that.I would  

 just like to keep the collector dry as possible.

       Thanks for the input.I'll let you know what I find.

                      Gary Aman

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

zeprep251(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: oil Usage

Lynn,

   Testing indicates no vacuum at the vent exit.Going to try 100W in place of 15/50W at next oil change.The first couple hours after the oil change the level stays up on the stick.But after that it slowly starts to evaporate.I did not put the first 188 hours on this engine,so it may have had an event that could cause this issue.I,ll quit bitching now and keep adding oil as it needs it.It,s a sweet running engine even with the carb twisted 20 degrees to even out the egt's.

   Thanks G.Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:51 am Post subject: oil Usage

I finally went to the year-around exclusive use of 100W, after using  

15/50W for a couple of winters. Now in the winter I heat my engine  

with a 200 watt heater, so the use of the multi-grade is not  

required....unless I find myself staying overnight in a hangar-less  

area.

I'm surprised that you can rotate the carb that much with the  

distributors in the way. I think I've finally got my EGT's where they  

are happy...less than 100F apart, and the highest about 1370-1390F at  

cruise (95-100 airspeed).



I just changed my oil, and this time I'm going to keep real good  

records about when and how much I add between changes. I've written  

it down before, but it happens so seldom that I lose the piece of  

paper it is written on between oil additions...my bad.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying



On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:56 PM, zeprep251(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] Lynn,

   Testing indicates no vacuum at the vent exit.Going to try 100W in  

 place of 15/50W at next oil change.The first couple hours after the  

 oil change the level stays up on the stick.But after that it slowly  

 starts to evaporate.I did not put the first 188 hours on this  

 engine,so it may have had an event that could cause this issue.I,ll  

 quit bitching now and keep adding oil as it needs it.It,s a sweet  

 running engine even with the carb twisted 20 degrees to even out  

 the egt's.

   Thanks G.Aman

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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