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Rotec TBI success story

 
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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

I bought a Rotec TBI-40 mechanical fuel injection system while at
Oshkosh, and spent the last 3 1/2 days making the throttle control
bellcrank, the air intake tube adapter, and the fuel line, and after
all checks and double-checks, I fired her up. The TBI performed as
advertised....right out of the box. The first flight will come
tomorrow. As advertised, this thing will not drip fuel like the other
well-known Bing replacement on the market. Nothing against them, but
I am VERY happy I made the decision...so far, anyway. Flying might be
another thing, but so far, so good.

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Soon to have Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: working on TBI installation...very close to completion
do not archive

On Aug 3, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Ted Palamarek wrote:

[quote]
<temco(at)telusplanet.net>

Rich

If I'm not mistaken that is Stan Specht's plane from Colorado. I
think he
calls his plane Columbine after the State flower.

I'm copying Stan with this msg and he will probably confirm whether
it is
his machine.

Ted Palamarek
Edmonton, AB

--


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Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Lynn keep us posted.  I spent a couple sessions with Paul at the Rotek booth.  The TBI is on my list of things to do this winter on the R3600 installed in my Hatz Classic.

John
---


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Guy Buchanan
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: Ramona, CA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

At 04:09 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
Quote:
As advertised, this thing will not drip fuel like the other
well-known Bing replacement on the market. Nothing against them, but
I am VERY happy I made the decision...so far, anyway. Flying might be
another thing, but so far, so good.

God Lynn, you're so terse. Can't get you to open up at all. Wink What
is the "other system" you're referring to; I don't know of any
available on the open market.

Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting


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Boilermaker2000



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 11
Location: West Lafayette, IN

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Guy Buchanan wrote:
What is the "other system" you're referring to; I don't know of any available on the open market.


I assume he is referring to the AeroCarb.


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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

I was referring to the Aerocarb. I didn't want to mention the name
because I think the Aerocarb folks have got a radar that sniffs out
any mention of the "A" word and sends bad vibes your way. Kinda
kidding, but there was a guy who bad-mouthed the A'carb, and got
removed from the Yahoo group for his bad reports. It might have been
deserved, I don't know all the facts about it.
The Aerocarb is sold by the Sonex folks, and they swear by it. Some
owners of the A'carb have expressed having great difficulty in
getting them to work right, and others....those that follow the
instructions, perhaps....bolt them on and tweak a little and go
flying. The Jabiru engine site on Yahoo, periodically has a lot of
give-and-take on the subject, and once in a while the Sonex folks
will chime in with a reminder to follow the instructions and the carb
will work just fine.

And when I said "Bing replacement" I didn't mean to suggest that the
Rotec TBI-40 is a parallel swap for the Bing. I meant to say that it
is another option for folks who want to explore another form of fuel
system....and I love to try something new.

P.S. "terse" had me scrambling for the dictionary....I hadn't heard
that word in ages. : ) Just how old ARE you, Guy? : )

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Soon to have Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: working on TBI installation...very close to completion
On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

Quote:


At 04:09 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
> As advertised, this thing will not drip fuel like the other
> well-known Bing replacement on the market. Nothing against them, but
> I am VERY happy I made the decision...so far, anyway. Flying might be
> another thing, but so far, so good.

God Lynn, you're so terse. Can't get you to open up at all. Wink
What is the "other system" you're referring to; I don't know of any
available on the open market.

Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 400 hrs. and counting




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Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM
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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Three good flights today. After first tying the plane to a farm
implement and running it up for nearly a minute at 2880 static, I
took off with about the same "feel" as with the Bing. Rpm was
2850-2910 or so, but what bothered me was the fuel flow indicator was
showing 4.5-4.7 gals/hr, where before with the Bing, it would show
6.6-6.8 gph. Later on, after flying it at various throttle settings,
I found that as I increased the throttle from 3000, it would read
3040, 3050, 3060, 3070 ok, then any more throttle and the rpm would
drop. This is probably why Jabiru/Bing say not to alter the WOT
setting which is a stop on the carb. In fact in the literature that
came with the TBI (either in the lit, or it was Paul, the Rotec tech
that said it) it says that you may have to stop the throttle short of
fully open. Tomorrow I will insert some slotted washers behind the
throttle control to prevent the knob from hitting the panel. It might
just be that my low fuel use during takeoff was an indication that I
had reached the point where the rpm's would drop, and this is what
caused the low fuel-burn numbers. After I do this simple "throttle
stop with washers", I'll note where it starts to bog down, and adjust
the cable accordingly. I'm hoping to see better flow numbers after
this change. If I don't, I'll have to look elsewhere to find the cause.

One thing about the mixture control....it takes some getting used to
it, after having relied on the Bing to do the work. It's amazing how
fast you can see those EGT number change when tweaking the "red knob."

Rotec 3600 in a Hatz?....must be nice, John!!

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 720 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway
do not archive

On Aug 3, 2009, at 8:23 PM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:

[quote] Lynn keep us posted. I spent a couple sessions with Paul at the
Rotek booth. The TBI is on my list of things to do this winter on
the R3600 installed in my Hatz Classic.

John
---


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Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM
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akflyer



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line. When I went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH WOT. Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.

I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed 800. Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid. 120 HP and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!


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Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200'
altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the
stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right....
I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in a
practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same ol'
strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip"
...geez, did I REALLY say that?

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway
On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer wrote:

Quote:


Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line. When I
went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH
WOT. Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.

I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY
less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed
800. Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid. 120 HP
and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!

--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

hander outer of humorless darwin awards


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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 56239#256239




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Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM
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Boilermaker2000



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 11
Location: West Lafayette, IN

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:01 am    Post subject: Off Topic: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

What is the big obstacle in getting fuel injection for the Rotax two strokes? Seems like this would have been figured out by now, but the only thing that comes up in a google search is a really expensive one that was shown at AirVenture 1998.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:44 am    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Hirth has FI on their two strokes and as someone mentioned earlier,
snowmobiles have used FI on their Rotax powered two strokes for many years.
---


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Av8r3400



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 83
Location: North Central Wisconsin (KRRL)

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject: Re: Off Topic: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Boilermaker2000 wrote:
What is the big obstacle in getting fuel injection for the Rotax two strokes?


Lawyers. As soon as any of the component manufacturers hear aircraft they either run for cover or increase pricing by a factor of 10 (or more). This is the same reason for the lack of fuel injection on the 900 series motors.

This is not me pontificating, this came from Brian from LEAF and Phil Lockwood during their seminars at Airventure.


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Kitfox Model IV-1200 W/912UL & IVO
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larry huntley



Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:37 am    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Hmmmm, can we possibly get lawyers barred from the field of aviation because
of the hazards they provide by indirectly stopping inovation that could make
our machines safer. It is simple logic to me,but who am I? ;o) Larry

---


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EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade
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Boilermaker2000



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 11
Location: West Lafayette, IN

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Re: Off Topic: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Av8r3400 wrote:
As soon as any of the component manufacturers hear aircraft they either run for cover or increase pricing by a factor of 10 (or more).


It seems like there should be an aftermarket atv/pwc set-up that is available. I'm not aware of a two-stroker used on a certified/production aircraft, so it doesn't seem much different than all of the other non-aviation parts we use. Except that we would want it to be pretty reliable and keep the engine making noise.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Like I said Lynn, pancakes in Cadillac Saturday and/or at Sugar Springs Sunday. Be there or be square.

Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch

do not archive



--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

Quote:

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 8:39 PM

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>

It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200' altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right....
I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in a practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same ol' strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip"
....geez, did I REALLY say that?

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway
On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer wrote:

Quote:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com (akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com)>

Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line. When I went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH WOT. Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.

I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed 800. Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid. 120 HP and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!

--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

hander outer of humorless darwin awards




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256239#256239








http:========================


[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

That's like blaming the axe for the axe murder, Larry. People tend to forget that Lawyers are just tools.It takes a litigious individual or grieving family to file the multimillion dollar product liability lawsuit that results in stifled innovation. (Not to mention a receptive jury).

Our aircraft are, afterall, "experimental." So, we experiment/ innovate and to hell with potential litigation. And, if the snowmachine, boat, auto or homemade part installed in our airplane fails, we resist the temptation to look for someone to sue.

Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch

do not archive

--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Larry Huntley <asq(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:

[quote]
From: Larry Huntley <asq(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 7:35 AM

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" <asq(at)roadrunner.com (asq(at)roadrunner.com)>

Hmmmm, can we possibly get lawyers barred from the field of aviation because of the hazards they provide by indirectly stopping inovation that could make our machines safer. It is simple logic to me,but who am I? ;o) Larry

---


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Lynn Matteson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Rotec TBI success story Reply with quote

Count me in for Sunday....Cadillac is a bit of a jaunt (geez, ever
since I bought this Rotec TBI from the blokes in Australia, I've
adapted their lingo) for me right now, but the Sugar Springs thing
sounds like my kind of mission. I've been venturing further and
further away from 'home' each time I fly it since I installed the new
fuel system, and I don't want to get too far away in case something
goes bad.

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 724.6 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway
do not archive

On Aug 6, 2009, at 9:37 AM, Marco Menezes wrote:

Quote:
Like I said Lynn, pancakes in Cadillac Saturday and/or at Sugar
Springs Sunday. Be there or be square.

Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch

do not archive

--- On Wed, 8/5/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Rotec TBI success story
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 8:39 PM



It seems low, Leonard, but today I was climbing at 800 fpm at 8200'
altitude, and it kept right on climbing, for as long as I held the
stick back, so it must be ok. It just doesn't seem right....
I can't wait to make a trip with it and see how much fuel I burn in
a practical test. I'm getting bored "runnin' up and down the same
ol' strip, gotta find a new place where the kids are hip"
....geez, did I REALLY say that?

Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 723.8 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: TBI installation done...tests flights underway
On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:54 PM, akflyer wrote:

>
<akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>
>
> Lyn, I would not think the fuel flow is that out of line. When I
went from carbed to FI on my boat, I went from 23 GPH WOT to 13 GPH
WOT. Cruise went from 18 GPH to just under 7 GPH.
>
> I know that when running the snowmachines, the EFI 800 burns WAY
less fuel than my carbed 600 and WAY WAY less fuel than my carbed
800. Hence my wanting to put the AC 800 EFI in my Avid. 120 HP
and 100# Tq at 6800.... on EFI.... dang would that be nice or what!
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1450
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 56239#256239
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http:========================

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Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM
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