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bdanbish(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: Fitting doors |
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Hi Rick,
Based on your kit number, you may have the same issue I had a month back when I started this process. If you search my name, you may find the thread and the answers I got from Bud and others regarding this.
Evidently, the earlier kits have a wood insert built in. Mine is A144 and the insert is visible from inside the fuselage looking up at where the door tang sits, just under where the hinges will go. So you won't need a wood insert but there's still a gap between the hinges and where they sit on the fuselage, so I put in a mixture of dry-ish flox then release film on top, then clamped the doors in place with the hinges already 5-min glued on. Put a piece of sponge inside the hinges to get them to press outwardly and make a good impression on the flox.
Once cured, I clean them up, scrape off a mm or so then put down 2x layers of bid, making sure everything positioned correctly. I could've done the bid at the same time, but I like to make sure it's all positioned correctly first. I clamp the door & hinges in place while this is curing also.
Once all that is cured up, I'm ready to drill the holes from the hinges into the door tangs then use a forester bit to make the recess around where the nuts will go, per the manual.
Now, with the doors clamped back in place, drill straight down through the door tangs through the fuselage and you're almost done.
One change I made was to increase the screw size to 1/4" on the top hinge. That size screw is easier to make the correct countersink for without weakening the hinge and it's just a little more substantial for the door. Probably overkill but doesn't hurt anything.
You'll want to check the thickness of your perspex as mine is 1mm thicker than normal and I had to remove some material from the inside of the door flange. Did that today - messy job, lots of fine dust.
Just got the starboard door finished today and have the port side clamped onto the flox as per above so we're at about the same place on this. Look at my album for photos, though I have it pretty much simplified now. The 2nd door is going MUCH faster.
Good luck!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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aireupora(at)sbcglobal.ne
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:52 am Post subject: Fitting doors |
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| Quote: | Thanks, Dan. your picture story was great. Easy to follow and understand. You had the same problem. It great when you can get an answer in less than a day. I love this web site!
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[quote][b]
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bdanbish(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: Fitting doors |
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In my email last night, I forgot to mention to scuff sand the tang rebates before floxing. I forgot to do that and there wasn't sufficient bonding, so guess what, I get to do it all over again! If I had a nickle for everytime I've redone something on this project, well I'd have a Lear by now!
This time, I'm going to do the flox and bid in one step, really no reason to do them seperately.
Yes, this sight is invaluable, the assistance and expertise - hate to think of building without it.
All the best.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: Fitting doors |
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On most Europas I've seen, the end of the door tang is not parallel to
the edge of the depression in the fuselage mold, leaving a small wedge
of a depression beneath the curved plane of the top of the fuselage.
I've found that it is possible to eliminate that depression and
maintain a constant hairline-width (allowing, of course, for paint)
gap between the entire perimeter of the tang and the fuselage while
still maintaining full door operating range. In my case it was
possible to achieve this w/o altering the hinges or the portion of the
fuselage upon which they rest, although I did dremel out a portion of
the rebate intended to receive the end of the tang when the door is
fully opened, but that was easily re-glassed w/ bits of bid.
..just another one of those many sub-routines, but with a
particularly satisfying result...happy to post some pixs if anyone's
interested,
Fred
A194
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aireupora(at)sbcglobal.ne
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: Fitting doors |
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| Quote: | happy to post some pixs if anyone's interested,
t;
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[quote][b]
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: Fitting doors |
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Rick,
These were taken (obviously) before final finishing, but show the basics; rear tangs done similarly. After fitting the hinges as per the manual and dremeling out the cavity inboard of where the hinges mount, the trick was to trim the end of the tang at the same angle it has w/ the top of the fuselage that results when the door is raised fully as shown in the 3rd photo. After determining the angle, I cut a scrap of skin to fit the wedge, used some 5 minute epoxy, then buttered its underside w/ flox. When door is closed, everything planes out very nicely.
Fred
[img]cid:D12B67DB-3BFA-49C4-8A45-874E827BA452[/img]
[img]cid:73EF907E-BFC6-4F01-B8F4-71D27A7D5A2B[/img]
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[img]cid:7CD945D4-7A26-487C-BF04-7A992EDD2CB4[/img]
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[img]cid:B943BA1A-90EB-4BDA-B02A-DAF1A8BA7C84[/img]
DSCN1408.JPG
[img]cid:B5A81B99-9975-4991-8CD7-0687B00E5804[/img]
DSCN1409.JPG
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: Fitting doors |
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Fred Klein wrote:
| Quote: | Rick,
These were taken (obviously) before final finishing, but show the
basics; rear tangs done similarly. After fitting the hinges as per the
manual and dremeling out the cavity inboard of where the hinges mount,
the trick was to trim the end of the tang at the same angle it has w/
the top of the fuselage that results when the door is raised fully as
shown in the 3rd photo. After determining the angle, I cut a scrap of
skin to fit the wedge, used some 5 minute epoxy, then buttered its
underside w/ flox. When door is closed, everything planes out very nicely.
Fred
That's the way I did it Fred, very satisfying when its finished. Make
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sure you do something about the upoward flexing of the rear corner
caused by the tension in the door strut. Either do the factory mod or
better, Justin Kennedy's mod.
Graham
btw the factory are planning to revert to push rod rudder drive, they
already have my jig for the rudder socket fitting CS29b. So if you want
my rudder mod talk to the factory.
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: Fitting doors |
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On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:
| Quote: | | That's the way I did it Fred, very satisfying when its finished. |
Right on Graham...I'm not surprised that your keen eye prompted you to go the extra mile.
| Quote: | | Make sure you do something about the upward flexing of the rear corner caused by the tension in the door strut. |
Yes. Without purchasing the factory kit, I sawed off the lug, repositioned it according to the geometry of the factory mod, and reinforced the frame with 3 layers of bid extending 3" each side of the ball, and lapping up the sides of the lug. What's been unexpected is that with the compression strut installed, I'm finding when the door is closed, it's necessary to pull the rear inwards to align the rear shoot bolts...guess that's why I've read about guys installing little handles and indicator lights.
| Quote: | | btw the factory are planning to revert to push rod rudder drive, they already have my jig for the rudder socket fitting CS29b. So if you want my rudder mod talk to the factory. |
You may recall I've already purchased your tail wheel mod...works a treat...even managed to get those pesky tension springs inside the tailcone...thanks.
On another note, I'm fitting my homemade splash mold cover plates over the cutouts for the latch mechanisms and see that the manual calls for them to be Reduxed in place. Doing so prevents access to the head of the AN3-12A bolt which secures the exterior door handle. Once the cover is glued on, it would appear impossible to remove or reinstall the handle, unless a hole (not called for in the manual) large enough for a socket is cut in the cover. Although the manual states that the purpose of the cover is to strengthen the door frame, I'm tempted to secure the cover w/ a few small flathead bolts tapped into the frame.
Comments anyone?
Fred
A194
[quote][b]
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Ivor Phillips
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: Fitting doors |
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Hi Fred
I used a couple of rivnuts per side on the cover plates, Haven't had problems
with door flexing, Easy access if needed to lock mechanism,
regards
Ivor
| Quote: | On another note, I'm fitting my homemade splash mold cover plates
over the cutouts for the latch mechanisms and see that the manual
calls for them to be Reduxed in place. Doing so prevents access to the
head of the AN3-12A bolt which secures the exterior door handle. Once
the cover is glued on, it would appear impossible to remove or
reinstall the handle, unless a hole (not called for in the manual)
large enough for a socket is cut in the cover. Although the manual
states that the purpose of the cover is to strengthen the door frame,
I'm tempted to secure the cover w/ a few small flathead bolts tapped
into the frame.
Comments anyone?
Fred
A194
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