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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli Guest
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:09 am Post subject: SV: Tri-gear Jamar brakes (breaks?) |
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Frans,
I do not recognize the name "Jamar" - are these the tunnel-mounted
finger-brakes supplied by Europa?
If so, maybe this can help: When bleeding one side, the finger lever of the
other side must be held all the way back (as far as you get it). Otherwise,
a cross-connection between the two sides is open and air from one side
escapes to the other side and vice versa. Use a string attached to the
safety harness or some other suitable point to tighten and hold first one,
then the other lever back.
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk. Guest
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: SV: Tri-gear Jamar brakes (breaks?) |
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Sidsel og Svein Johnsen wrote:
Quote: |
Frans,
I do not recognize the name "Jamar" - are these the tunnel-mounted
finger-brakes supplied by Europa?
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Yep.
Quote: | If so, maybe this can help: When bleeding one side, the finger lever of the
other side must be held all the way back (as far as you get it).
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I did that.
I also turned the unit in all possible directions when bleeding it. In
the last two days I have worked liters of dot5 through the system (and
reused as much of it as possible of course, but lost at least half a
liter in cumulative drips). Whatever I try, the port side always behaves
the same; it may feel promising some times, but after the first squirt,
it just doesn't pump anymore.
So, I hate to have to come to the conclusion that the unit itself is
somehow defective.
I took it out, but now I'm puzzled how to disassemble it. Various people
on this forum have written in the past about changing seals etc. but I'm
ashamed to not have a clue yet how to open up the unit. There is a tiny
screw on the side, but taking it out doesn't change a thing. There are
no doors, no panels, nothing, or they have hidden it magically. So I
assume that some has to give near the place where the lever comes out.
It is tempting to pull on the lever until something gives, but before I
do that I want to be sure that I didn't miss something.
Very very frustrating all this. Dot5 all over the place, the floor and
workbence are slippery from that stuff (I always work as clean as
possible but this silicone stuff seems to go everywhere by itself), my
hands are sore of squeezing, braking and pumping, and so far not any
progress. This brake bleeding thing is on my nomination for the most
hated job on an Europa.
If I have to fiddle with that Jamar thing much longer to get it working,
I might alltogether toss that thing away. What is involved to convert to
a Matco unit? As I already finished the interior, can I reuse the
existing slots for the levers? Is it plug and play, or is some surgery
needed?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Frans
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk. Guest
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: SV: Tri-gear Jamar brakes (breaks?) |
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I wrote:
Quote: | I took it out, but now I'm puzzled how to disassemble it.
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Ok, I managed to find the secret. blush. Now you all know I'm not a
brake expert.
So, the next problem is: is it normal what I'm seeing?
When I turned the cap loose, nothing happened. It might be that the
whole contents should be launched by the spring, but it didn't. But then
again, maybe that is normal. The thing with the white disk was easy to
get out, but the rubber seal (?) just above the spring is stuck. If you
look at the picture, in the upper brake cylinder, I left it inside
without touching. It stays there despite the spring, and it is also not
nicely alined with the hole of the metal cap of the spring (ok, maybe
that is normal too). Both sides were equal. In the bottom cylinder, I
took everything out. The rupper thing doesn't move by itself, but is
still easy to get out. But if it is supposed to move freely inside the
cylinder, then this unit has a fault. Near the bottom (when the spring
is fully depressed) the rubber thing is pushed back, but it is erratic
at best.
If I take it out, and put the thing with the white disk in it, then it
moves freely. So the problem is not the white disk.
Also, if I look inside the cylinders, they look like I found them in a
junk yard, not like something that is supposed to be a brand new
airplane part!
So, after all, it could be that the problem was not so much air in the
system, but a sticking piston. Then squeezing in fluid via the bleed
nipple would force the piston back (I could indeed feel a resistance,
something giving way, then after a while followed again by increased
resistance), and trying to bleed from top to bottom would give me just
one throw, and the sticking piston would not allow the fluid to refill
the cylinder. The only thing that doesn't match is that I remember that
the brake lever still had some spring action, but maybe I'm wrong here.
Assuming that my findings are not according to the way it should have
been (can anyone confirm that the spring should be able to push
everything out by itself?), what would be the best way to fix it? Do I
need to replace the sticking rubber caps or do they still look ok?
About the history of these parts: I bought the kit from a previous
owner, who never really started the kit, and had it stored for several
years. He wanted to get his PPL but failed to get a medical. So, after
several years, he sold it to me. The original foot brakes came with it,
but also the finger brake conversion kit. I assume he has bought that
when it came available. I installed the brake system in 2008, and that
was the first time it was lubricated. The brake levers always felt
somewhat "sticky". The unit has only seen DOT5.
Could it be that the rubber seals are dried out or something?
Frans
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jeff(at)rmmm.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: SV: Tri-gear Jamar brakes (breaks?) |
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On Oct 12, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Frans Veldman wrote:
Quote: | Also, if I look inside the cylinders, they look like I found them in a
junk yard, not like something that is supposed to be a brand new
airplane part!
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Frans,
It's been 4 years since I did this but I remember having the same
problem. It all boiled down to the condition of the cylinders as you
mentioned. I remember taking the thing apart completely and finding the
same crap in the cylinders. Others on this forum said they had the same
issue. The key is to clean both cylinders of all the junk. I seem to
remember there was a bad batch of these Europa received and cleaning
them properly freed up all my problems so the springs could do their
job. I remember using a small soft round wire brush with some paint
thinner or solvent and they came out looking like new. I then
reassembled them and they've worked perfect ever since. Your right to
bleed each cylinder by removing the set screw / bleeder until the
bubbles quit. Do your best to keep the bleeder at the highest point. It
will take a few try's with rags wrapped around it to catch the dot-5
that comes out. A word to the wise. Ad a dab of gasket seal to each set
screw / bleeder. Any kind sold at the auto parts store will work. Mine
continued to leek and therefore I kept getting air into the lines not
to mention the fluid all over the tunnel. The gasket seal on the
threads of both bleeder screws solved it.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush
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