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440 hp Super CJ for sale

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barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Gang,



Here is our latest listing...I flew this bird for the photo shoot and it is not only beautiful, but with 440 hp it is an absolute gorilla!  But it's not enough for the owner, he is selling it to put the same FWF on a  Yak-50!

Picture gallery here:

http://gallery.me.com/bdogltd#100183

Complete listing will be on our site within 24 hours.  Contact me offline with any questions.

Happy Flying!

Barry



Barry Hancock

Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.

www.worldwidewarbirds.com

(909) 606-4444 office

(888) 407-7660 cell

"Making your aviation dreams a reality."

L-39 video: http://gallery.me.com/bdogltd#100140



 [quote][b]

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:12 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Barry-I,and I'm sure others,would be  interested in knowing more about this 440 HP engine.

 Richard

  

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5  3LW

United Kingdom

  

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544  340129

www.russianaeros.com



 [quote]   ---

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:19 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Indeed YES



Didier



2010/4/23 Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>

[quote]         Barry-I,and I'm sure others,would be  interested in knowing�more about�this 440 HP engine.

 Richard

 �

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5  3LW

United Kingdom

 �

 Tel:�� +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:� +44 (0) 1544  340129

www.russianaeros.com



 [quote]   ---

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:53 am Post subject: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Looks like a GEOSOCO PF engine but with electric start am I seeing fuel injectors on the dress kit photo, or is the air start still hooked up?



A visit to Barry"s website and the particular listing calls the engin 420HP not 440 and attributes the extra 20 HP to a "tuned exhaust"

_________________
Milt

barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:53 am Post subject: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

According to Bill Blackwell, the exhaust is good for 10% increase in horsepower, thus the 400hp x 10% = 440 hp.  Also, it has both air and electric start, which is pretty trick...just so long as you leave only your master or air on, and not both, you'll always be able to get it started!

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

terrycalloway(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:24 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Barry,I would have to disagree with Bill on this one.

Most likely his over simplification of the equation Exhaust = Horsepower is based on the automobile.  In that the automobile the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure.  Dramatic changes of the above can result in substantial increases in horsepower like 10%.

None of this exist on the stock Russian exhaust. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system and with the exception of the muffler it is probably already fairly efficient. 

Just my own opinion but I would have a very hard time believing you could bolt on 40 more horsepower that easily.  Most likely the equation was a transcription error from the Dollars = Horsepower equation. 

I will leave it at that and hope some of you engineers out there will chime in.  George are you listening?

Pumper

ps Yet another time I find myself missing Deno.



On Apr 23, 2010, at 10:53 AM, barryhancock wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>



According to Bill Blackwell, the exhaust is good for 10% increase in horsepower, thus the 400hp x 10% = 440 hp.

barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

LOL, that may be, Pumper.  I'm going on what Bill told me and have not seen any data one way or the other.  I do know that this aircraft accelerates perceptibly faster than my Yak-50....

_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

Dale

Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 178

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Does not tuned exhaust mean equal length pipes so there is also temp control from exhaust valve to port? How about slip joints for crack control? Looks all welded to me.

kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:10 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

I suspect that to get the 10% or 40 HP increase would require the new

exhaust, also, the higher compression pistons, rings and new valves,

sparkplugs etc that Bill offers.  You will not get a 10% increase in power

on the M14P just by changing the exhaust alone. With all these mods you will

also be shortening the time between TBO's.  I will probably do this to my

50....   Who ever said being cool was cheap................-



Kregg Victory



Victory Aero LLC

2502 John Montgomery Dr.

San Jose, CA 95148

408-836-5122

www.balancemyprop.com



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:06 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Kregg,

Looking cool means sounding cool. Having heard the exhaust on some CJ's

around here they do not have the throaty roar of current exhaust on the CJ.

Have not heard the exhaust on a M-14. But the sound made and heard is all in

the eye or the ear of the beholder.

But the real question is why modify the sexiest YAK made with the exception

of the YAK3, 9, or 11. But their sound comes from a different displacement.

Doc



--

kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Great Point.  It makes Sexy-------------Super Sexy!!!!!!!!!!!!



Ever flown a 50 with a big engine?



Kregg



Victory Aero LLC

2502 John Montgomery Dr.

San Jose, CA 95148

408-836-5122

www.balancemyprop.com

--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

No but if it like the Viper with the big mouth and the big engine it ought

to be kick ass!

Doc



--

cpayne(at)joimail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Wow! 440HP "Gorilla" engine, slick, streamlined nosewheel fairing; Blackwell side exhaust, Massive 3-blade propeller, Malcom "speed" canopy... boy I bet it could run really fast. Should put ANY simple paddle-blade, po' boy CJ-6 jalopy to shame on a speed run,



That's 80HP more than a plain 360, properly tuned of course. How could any plain 360 keep up?? Why bother with a contest, just hand over the trophy....



Craig Payne

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

I've tried to stay out of this discussion, but it is hard to.  

 

Lots of things make power, but in the end it is a matter of fuel and air.  Period.  Improving cylinder balance and flow efficiency will certainly increase horsepower.    I am sure this exhaust system goes a long way towards doing that.  However, simply bolting it on and getting 10% increase is impossible.  IMPOSSIBLE.   Just not going to happen.... 

 

That said..... 

 

If you then recurve the fuel flow, possibly re-jetting the carb, and then messing with the timing on the engine to take advantage of the flow increase, then 10% power is indeed do-able. 

 

Tom Johnson's YAK-50 has a custom made exhaust that is on the same lines as this system.  In talking to him some time back, he mentioned to me that Bill had to re-time the engine and do a lot of tuning to the fuel system to make it all work.  That leads me to believe that Bill Blackwell IS INDEED doing a complete re-tuning of the entire engine to take advantage of the improved exhaust.  If the timing is advanced, the fuel flow is increased, and the cylinders are equalized and flowed better..... oh man, things can indeed happen!  

 

Tom also backed up a lot of the work done with engine and prop THRUST tests.  Not a fully dynamic test by any means.  That is very very hard to do, however... those tests he showed me led me to believe that quite a substantial increase was achieved.  Exactly how much of an increase was made, was very hard to say.  Throwing a number out like "440 HP", is simply not going to be too accurate.  We tend to look at a number like that and expect it to be a measured value and if it is not, then it must be total bull.  There is a middle ground here.  The engines Bill are producing clearly have a horsepower increase.  10% is certainly possible given what is being done.  What it really is... I mean down to the last gnats ass can only be determined with some very costly testing.   But I'll bet it's damned close to what he is claiming.... 

 

Just my 2 cents, all hear-say, and take that for what it is worth. 

 

Mark Bitterlich

 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Terry Calloway

Sent: Fri 4/23/2010 12:22 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Barry, 

I would have to disagree with Bill on this one.



Most likely his over simplification of the equation Exhaust = Horsepower is based on the automobile.  In that the automobile the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure.  Dramatic changes of the above can result in substantial increases in horsepower like 10%.

None of this exist on the stock Russian exhaust. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system and with the exception of the muffler it is probably already fairly efficient. 

Just my own opinion but I would have a very hard time believing you could bolt on 40 more horsepower that easily.  Most likely the equation was a transcription error from the Dollars = Horsepower equation. 

I will leave it at that and hope some of you engineers out there will chime in.  George are you listening?

Pumper

ps Yet another time I find myself missing Deno.

On Apr 23, 2010, at 10:53 AM, barryhancock wrote:

	

	

	According to Bill Blackwell, the exhaust is good for 10% increase in horsepower, thus the 400hp x 10% = 440 hp.

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

I also forgot to mention a few more things.  

 

Some of the other mods being done include replacing the Russian pistons with high quality American made forged aluminum racing pistons with a slightly higher compression ratio and gapless rings.  Also mods to the cylinder with valve replacements, three angle valve jobs, valve seals, etc.   These are all very well known and very valid modifications made to a variety of racing engines.  

 

I have no idea if any of these other mods were made to the engine in question or not.  However, I personally saw the result of some piston and cylinder mods made to a M-14 PF engine that was installed in a Sukhoi-31 belonging to Sergei Boriak, and according to him, it produced significantly more power.  How much is open for debate.  Heck, even the theory of raising the compression on  a supercharged engine in the first place is open for debate.  What is clearly true however, is that the Russian engines have a lot of blow-by on the rings, especially as they get older, and the more mass the engine has to move around to generate power, the more gets lost in the process.  Same thing holds true with friction losses.  Doing the things Bill does will increase power.  

 

So what I'd REALLY like to know is...  just exactly what was done to this engine?  I've met Bill Blackwell and came away very very impressed.   This gent is QUITE capable and also a really nice guy to boot.    It would be interesting to know just how much was done to this particular engine.   For example, I have no doubt what-so-ever that Tom's YAK-50 is putting out 10% more than it started with.  No question of it.  

 

Mark Bitterlich

 



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E

Sent: Fri 4/23/2010 9:17 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale






I've tried to stay out of this discussion, but it is hard to. 



Lots of things make power, but in the end it is a matter of fuel and air.  Period.  Improving cylinder balance and flow efficiency will certainly increase horsepower.    I am sure this exhaust system goes a long way towards doing that.  However, simply bolting it on and getting 10% increase is impossible.  IMPOSSIBLE.   Just not going to happen....



That said.....



If you then recurve the fuel flow, possibly re-jetting the carb, and then messing with the timing on the engine to take advantage of the flow increase, then 10% power is indeed do-able.



Tom Johnson's YAK-50 has a custom made exhaust that is on the same lines as this system.  In talking to him some time back, he mentioned to me that Bill had to re-time the engine and do a lot of tuning to the fuel system to make it all work.  That leads me to believe that Bill Blackwell IS INDEED doing a complete re-tuning of the entire engine to take advantage of the improved exhaust.  If the timing is advanced, the fuel flow is increased, and the cylinders are equalized and flowed better..... oh man, things can indeed happen! 



Tom also backed up a lot of the work done with engine and prop THRUST tests.  Not a fully dynamic test by any means.  That is very very hard to do, however... those tests he showed me led me to believe that quite a substantial increase was achieved.  Exactly how much of an increase was made, was very hard to say.  Throwing a number out like "440 HP", is simply not going to be too accurate.  We tend to look at a number like that and expect it to be a measured value and if it is not, then it must be total bull.  There is a middle ground here.  The engines Bill are producing clearly have a horsepower increase.  10% is certainly possible given what is being done.  What it really is... I mean down to the last gnats ass can only be determined with some very costly testing.   But I'll bet it's damned close to what he is claiming....



Just my 2 cents, all hear-say, and take that for what it is worth.



Mark Bitterlich

________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Terry Calloway

Sent: Fri 4/23/2010 12:22 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

Barry,

I would have to disagree with Bill on this one.



Most likely his over simplification of the equation Exhaust = Horsepower is based on the automobile.  In that the automobile the exhaust pipe is too small or the muffler has a lot of air resistance then this can cause back-pressure.  Dramatic changes of the above can result in substantial increases in horsepower like 10%.

None of this exist on the stock Russian exhaust. High-performance exhaust systems use headers, big tail pipes and free-flowing mufflers to eliminate back-pressure in the exhaust system and with the exception of the muffler it is probably already fairly efficient.

Just my own opinion but I would have a very hard time believing you could bolt on 40 more horsepower that easily.  Most likely the equation was a transcription error from the Dollars = Horsepower equation. 

I will leave it at that and hope some of you engineers out there will chime in.  George are you listening?

Pumper

ps Yet another time I find myself missing Deno.

On Apr 23, 2010, at 10:53 AM, barryhancock wrote:

        

       

        According to Bill Blackwell, the exhaust is good for 10% increase in horsepower, thus the 400hp x 10% = 440 hp.

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: 440 hp Super CJ for sale

One easy way to measure the HP of an engine is to actually measure the thrust or pull of the engine.  You actually measure the very configuration that is effecting your airplane.  Simply tie the airplane to a tree.  On the line put in a scale to measure the pull.

    

   I believe Bill has done this with a "Rino" scale, and has measured several engine configurations from a standard M-14 360 to different supped up engines.  

 

 Thrust is what actually effects your airplane.  Whatever HP the engine puts out does not nesserarly led to the same thrust in every instants.

    

   Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

   

 

 

   --

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