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TR-1 Control forces

 
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hans-chr.erstad(at)c2i.ne
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

Hello Ralf, and others

I have been thinking about this, but cannot think why the aileron contoll
forces are so different.

My aileron controll forces are light a low speed, but get progrssively
heavier as I increase the speed, and at cruse speed the forces needed to
make roll movement is quite higher than in your plane.

It could eiter be the controll mechanics, or aerodynamic forces?

I remember that when I built aiplane, I had to attach the stick assembly a
bit higher up on the spar tunnel than the manual said, in order to get the
push rods to be center in the cutouts made in the wing ribs. But, still I
felt that I have a shorter stick than you have. This lead me to speculate
that the stick itself was shorter in the early kits??

Other than this, I have no clue. The controll surfaces looked identical, so
I should not think that the aerodynamic forces are different, but
aerodynamics is sometimes a mystery to me.

Regards,
Hans Christian

PS. I finally got around to wash off all the dead Norwegian, Swedish, Danish
and German mosquitos on the aiplane yesterday. A kilo lighter now
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] På vegne av Twellmann, Ralf
Sendt: 21. juli 2010 08:53
Til: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Emne: AW: SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet / Control forces


--> <r.twellmann(at)steute.com>

This leads to a question which arose during our weekend flying in Germany:
We found that the aileron forces on Hans plane are considerably higher than
on mine and on Keiths.
Does anybody know whether the kinematics of the controls were changed during
production of the kits?
(Hans has one of the earlier kits)

Ralf


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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:54 am    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

Do the controls feel the same on the ground? It would have been interesting to put a 10 pound weight on each aileron of each airplane on the ground and see if the control forces are the same. I'd guess something in the control system is causing a lot of friction under load in flight. Sticky rod ends or maybe the bolts that attch the stick to the carry over are too tight.

I ended up redesigning a lot of the control system so it's all ball bearings including all the rod ends. It was expensive and probably overkill, but the controls are nice. I made it a center stick, between the seats, too.

Cheers,
Scott

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Hans Christian Erstad <hans-chr.erstad(at)c2i.net> wrote:

Quote:

From: Hans Christian Erstad <hans-chr.erstad(at)c2i.net>
Subject: TR-1 Control forces
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 7:17 AM

--> KIS-List message posted by: "Hans Christian Erstad" <hans-chr.erstad(at)c2i.net (hans-chr.erstad(at)c2i.net)>

Hello Ralf, and others

I have been thinking about this, but cannot think why the aileron contoll
forces are so different.

My aileron controll forces are light a low speed, but get progrssively
heavier as I increase the speed, and at cruse speed the forces needed to
make roll movement is quite higher than in your plane.

It could eiter be the controll mechanics, or aerodynamic forces?

I remember that when I built aiplane, I had to attach the stick assembly a
bit higher up on the spar tunnel than the manual said, in order to get the
push rods to be center in the cutouts made in the wing ribs. But, still I
felt that I have a shorter stick than you have. This lead me to speculate
that the stick itself was shorter in the early kits??

Other than this, I have no clue. The controll surfaces looked identical, so
I should not think that the aerodynamic forces are different, but
aerodynamics is sometimes a mystery to me.

Regards,
Hans Christian

PS. I finally got around to wash off all the dead Norwegian, Swedish, Danish
and German mosquitos on the aiplane yesterday. A kilo lighter now
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] På vegne av Twellmann, Ralf
Sendt: 21. juli 2010 08:53
Til: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Emne: AW: SV: SV: SV: Picture of fillet / Control forces

--> KIS-List message posted by: "Twellmann, Ralf"
--> <r.twellmann(at)steute.com (r.twellmann(at)steute.com)>

This leads to a question which arose during our weekend flying in Germany:
We found that the aileron forces on Hans plane are considerably higher than
on mine and on Keiths.
Does anybody know whether the kinematics of the controls were changed during
production of the kits?
(Han--> http://forums.matronics; - List Contribution Web Site -
p; = -->


[quote][b]


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bakerocb



Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

7/22/2010

Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."

So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.

'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to
gather and understand knowledge."

===========================================================
---


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sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:14 am    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

I put a throttle quadrent on the left side. I like the stick on the right, throttle on the left.

Scott

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

[quote]
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 12:53 PM

--> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>

7/22/2010

Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."

So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.

'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."

==================================
---


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglo
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

I was scratching my head how to do it.
I like throttle on the left and the stick in the right hand.
Installing the throttle on the left makes it inaccessible to the the guy on the right.
So finally I left the throttle in the center and I fly the KIS from the right seat, having all pilots instruments on the right.

Jerzy
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, July 23, 2010 12:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces

I put a throttle quadrent on the left side. I like the stick on the right, throttle on the left.

Scott

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

[quote]
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 12:53 PM

--> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

7/22/2010

Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."

So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.

'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."

==================================
---


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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

Ok. So do you have to fly on the left side of the airways? ;o)

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 3:36 PM, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net (jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote] I was scratching my head how to do it.
I like throttle on the left and the stick in the right hand.
Installing the throttle on the left makes it inaccessible to the the guy on the right.
So finally I left the throttle in the center and I fly the KIS from the right seat, having all pilots instruments on the right.

Jerzy
From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com (sstearns2(at)yahoo.com)>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Fri, July 23, 2010 12:13:21 PM

Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces


I put a throttle quadrent on the left side.  I like the stick on the right, throttle on the left. 
 
Scott

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:

[quote]
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net) <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 12:53 PM

--> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

7/22/2010

Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."

So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.

'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."

==================================
---


- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: TR-1 Control forces Reply with quote

To have fully dual controls I'd have to mount another throttle quadent (probably just throttle, no mixture) on the right and run some control cable from the right throttle quadrent forward to the back side of the firewall and along the back of the firewall and the back along the left side of the fuselage to the main throttle quadent. The right side would need to have 'reverse' movement, so a push on the throttle pulls on the cable.

The center stick also presents some issues given that your left hand is the one free to work the buttons and switches. I put all the switches and the autopilot on the left side of the panel and the GPS/NAV/Comm is right in front of the pilot.

It's not a good set up for any kind of flight training, but it works great for the way I'll use the airplane.

Scott

--- On Fri, 7/23/10, jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[quote]
From: jerzy krasinski <jerzy_krasinski(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 1:36 PM

I was scratching my head how to do it.
I like throttle on the left and the stick in the right hand.
Installing the throttle on the left makes it inaccessible to the the guy on the right.
So finally I left the throttle in the center and I fly the KIS from the right seat, having all pilots instruments on the right.

Jerzy


From: Scott Stearns <sstearns2(at)yahoo.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, July 23, 2010 12:13:21 PM
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces

I put a throttle quadrent on the left side. I like the stick on the right, throttle on the left.

Scott

--- On Thu, 7/22/10, bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

[quote]
From: bakerocb(at)cox.net <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: TR-1 Control forces
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 12:53 PM

--> KIS-List message posted by: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

7/22/2010

Hello Scott, You wrote: "I made it a center stick, between the seats, too."

So what did you do about throttles? Thanks.

'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge."

==================================
---


- The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
Back to top
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