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Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

John,

I don't know that I'd buy that there's anyone trying to "hide"

performance numbers.  I think that it's actually a bit less

convenient to get the numbers than people may think.



For me, I didn't have wheel fairings for any of the flyoff period.

So, numbers were fairly meaningless for that time period.  Then

after the flyoff, I've spent a considerable amount of my flying

time doing what you do best in a 4 seater....taking people for

short flights.  And when you're hauling around your friends,

family, and co-workers, you don't spend time dinking around with

the numbers....heck, you have a hard enough time focusing on

the flight itself while trying to find their house to circle

around.



My actual time spent in cruise, at altitudes worthy of

gathering data, has been pretty short and fairly rare to date.

For me, it's actually probably even easier than for some to

post numbers, because the Cheltons do all of the Density altitude

and TAS calculations for me, and I just have to jot them down.

But on the last few flights I've had lots of other things to

do.....even down to being the one who has to hand over the

stick so I can get the movies playing for the kids.

And then, you still like to crank up the tunes and sit and zone

out and enjoy the flight a bit too.



So sure, we could get more numbers. And I hope people do

gather them and post them.  I'm as curious as anyone else

to know how my plane measures up.  I'm not concerned if I'm

in cruise at 160kts, or 170kts, myself, except for the

perspective of that if I'm WAAAY off what everyone else is,

I need to find out what kind of rigging problem I'd have

to deal with....like with Randy's flaps originally.  Other than

that, I'm not too concerned with the exact numbers.  I know

that I can fly to Orlando in just about 7 hours.  I know that

I can fly to San Diego in about 12.



Also, when it comes to MT vs. Hartzell, if nobody's going to

take Jim up on his offer then we're going to need a good sized

sample group to compare.  So far, many of the MT owners are

also people who have 300-325Hp engines.  I know that it seems

like a simple and small request, to have someone yank a

prop and swap it, and get numbers on it, but once you have

your kit built, you've already decided on YOUR prop.  The

difference, performance, smoothness, and everything else

becomes irrelevant unless you're willing to sell your now

used prop for a new one.  So no, I'm not really too interested

in pulling a prop for "the cause".   I 'spose if someone

offered me $2500 for the time, effort, and fuel to go fly

their prop, I'd think about it...but that's the kind of

thing it would take at this point.  Avgas at $3.50-4.50/gallon

isn't going to be conducive to going flying just for data.



One other addition....if it's numbers a person wants,

here's some to chew on....(remember that I'm conservative in my

estimations, so I overestimate costs for everything a tiny bit,

and I underestimate my flight planning speeds)



Hourly operating costs of the RV-10, including Fuel (figured

at about $3.75/gallon, Oil, Oil changes, avionics upkeep, and

engine reserve:  Approx. $76/hr



Add in the costs for my insurance, and hanger (el'cheapo at $50/mo),

and average it over 100 hours per year, and now your actual

operating costs are around $117/hr.



Yes, I am one of those anal people who pay into their reserve

fund for their hourly costs....it helps me relax knowing that

I'm saving for my next engine overhaul and that any major

happenings that come up shouldn't keep me down for long.



So the RV-10 might be a nice, fast, and fairly efficient plane,

but you shouldn't be building to save $$$$ over renting.  I know

rental rates are all over the map out there, but in many places

$117/hr could rent you a pretty nice plane, and you wouldn't have

to plunk down $125K+ to fly it....you could be earning

interest on that money instead.   Those are the kinds of numbers

I really wanted to know before I jumped on the -10 wagon.



The other thing that keeps the numbers from getting out is that

people tend to fall away from the list a bit when they're done

building.  I don't see that happening to me.....so sorry to those who

can't stand these long posts.....I just like you guys too much

to let go. 



I'll try to keep adding performance number occasionally, but my

REAL goal is to get some good aerial photos and video, along

with some in-cockpit stuff of the same, and then maybe make a

cool RV-10 video some day....that would keep people pumped

up a bit.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John W. Cox wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The question remains… What was the airspeed in knots. I’m not engaging 

 in the banter about valid airspeed.  Just your number Please!   The rest 

 of the dialog is well known to the group about identical aircraft, 

 identical engines, identical power settings.  Am I the only one that has 

 notices dozens of flying RV-10s and everyone is hiding their personal 

 performance numbers?

 

  

 

 About the only positive response has been on empty weight.  No one is 

 identifying their change in CG from the factory spec.  There are lots of 

 question on component placement that would help builders if there was 

 less secrecy.  At least Tim mentioned he did not have the loading 

 problem as quoted by VANS.  We should all be able to ask, “And what did 

 he do to solve that obstacle?”

 

  

 

 What is it about you MT prop twirlers that keeps data so close to the 

 vest.  I can’t make out your whisper, could you shout it once again 

 please… Airspeed that is.  I got the chicken part. Today is Friday and 

 it smells fishy.

 

  

 

 John - $-00.02

 

  

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of 

 *LessDragProd(at)aol.com

 *Sent:* Friday, April 28, 2006 8:09 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Extra fuel tanks

 

  

 

 Hi John,

 

  

 

 The manifold pressure was 23".

 

  

 

 Regarding airspeed.

 

  

 

 IMHO, the ONLY way to get VALID comparison airspeed numbers between 

 propellers is to fly them on the same aircraft and engine WITH NO 

 OTHER CHANGES MADE.

 

  

 

 I have offered to pay the expenses and provide the 3 blade MT Propeller 

 for a Hartzell propeller equipped RV-10 to do the testing.  I think it 

 says a GREAT deal that there have been NO TAKERS from RV-10's with the 

 RV-10 Hartzell propeller.

 

  

 

 What are you Hartzell drivers?  CHICKEN?

 

  

 

 With Best Regards,

 

 Jim Ayers

 

 PS Was that gauntlet to subtle?

 

  

 

 In a message dated 04/27/2006 9:22:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 

 johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com writes:

 

     Jim, lets here the airspeed and MP at 8,000 DA, 2500 RPM, 20 gph, 3

     blade MT and a Lyco at 260hp.  My version was missing your answer to

     Jim Gore’s request for SPEED data.

 

     John Cox

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10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

At the risk of starting a frenzy, I'll post a few #'s I got on my trip from 

SoCal to Sedona,AZ and back the last few days. For the most part it was very 

consistent! I flew at 11000 IFR out, and 10500 VFR on the way back. At full 

throttle (20" at those altitudes) and 2300 rpm, my TAS was always at 160kts 

and fuel flow was 11 gph running a few degrees rich of peak. IO-540, MT 3 

blade prop. DA on the way back was about 12K. Mark (N104ML)

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johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

Mark - Thank you for being the first candid and honest MT/RV-10 pilot.

Nothing wrong with knowing the facts.  I wonder if you have ever

considered LOP as prescribed by GAMI for even better fuel burn rates

during cruise?  Thanks again for using Knots and staying away from the

YUGO mph numbers which are only valid for EPA fuel economy ratings on

four wheeled motor vehicles traveling on MOGAS.  Jim if you are still

out there, still no speed data.



Have you had any spring temperature swings on the CHT that you believe

are out of the norm for break-in?  Would you consider putting on a new

Hartzell 2 blade for the RV-10 if one was made available?



John Cox - KUAO



--

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gorejr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

Mark,

When you were a few degrees rich of peak what was your CHT and EGT?  Thanks  Jim Gore

[quote] 

 From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>

 Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 07:22:08 EDT

 To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: RE: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

 Mark - Thank you for being the first candid and honest MT/RV-10 pilot.

 Nothing wrong with knowing the facts.  I wonder if you have ever

 considered LOP as prescribed by GAMI for even better fuel burn rates

 during cruise?  Thanks again for using Knots and staying away from the

 YUGO mph numbers which are only valid for EPA fuel economy ratings on

 four wheeled motor vehicles traveling on MOGAS.  Jim if you are still

 out there, still no speed data.

 Have you had any spring temperature swings on the CHT that you believe

 are out of the norm for break-in?  Would you consider putting on a new

 Hartzell 2 blade for the RV-10 if one was made available?

 John Cox - KUAO

 --

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10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

I have all those numbers written down on a piece of paper, but left it in my 

airplane. I will get back to it Mon, or Tues and be happy to post them. I'm 

pretty sure the EGT's were around 1370 or so and the CHT's at 390 roughly. I 

was fairly happy to see all at a consistent temp 1-6 cyl's.

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LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks

Hi John,

  

 Since Mark has shared his speed data, you have all of the information I had  available.

  

 Jim Ayers

  

 In a message dated 04/29/2006 4:24:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,  johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"    <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>



Mark - Thank you for being the first    candid and honest MT/RV-10 pilot.

Nothing wrong with knowing the    facts.

   (Stuff Cut)

   Jim if you are still out there, still no speed  data.

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