Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

whadath(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject: Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach

It has been my practice to enter the airport pattern on the right tank due to left hand circuits and in my experience mostly left hand crosswinds. This practice has served me well until recently.

 I was coming back to Kitchener Ontario from Portsmouth NH just after hurricane Earl had moved up the US East coast and the winds were strong and gusting from the north   west. The trip which usually takes 2.5 hrs took 3 hours and 40 minutes. Most of the trip I was grounding 120 to 125 kts but at times I was down to 107 kts.  

As I approached my home airport I was cleared to a 4 mile final on runway 26 with reported winds  300 at 23 gusting 37 knots.   

This gave me a 40 degree cross wind. I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals in the right tank and had chosen the right tank for approach and landing. I was indicating 110 kts on approach but grounding 75. Runway 26 is 7500 feet and I had decided not to land at the threshold due to past experience with turbulence at the threshold of 26 due to some trees. I was planning to attempt touch down about ¼ way down the runway. The turbulence on approach was considerable and I need almost all of the left rudder to keep the right wing low and the aircraft lined up with the runway. As I came over the threshold the engine began to surge adding to the difficulty to keep the aircraft stable. I generally land power off so I decided rather than switch tanks I just pulled power to idle and continued with the landing. My major concern at the time was that this had now become a landing and not an attempt to land as I had no power to go around. As fortune would have it the turbulence subsided as I went into the flair and the landing was uneventful. I switched to left tank and taxied back to the hangar. My family was onboard and we talked about what had just happen and I said I would trouble shoot the problem as this was not a situation that I would like repeated.  

I decided to drain the fuel tanks to confirm the gauges were accurate and yes they were and I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals in the right. I pulled the gascolator and it was free of debris. I did a fuel flow test on each side and confirmed that the flows were good.  

The weather was clear today so I decided to see if I could duplicate the surging but at 4000 feet.   

The aircraft did not surge on either tank while taxiing or in cruise and in coordinated turns.   

I turned on the boost pump put the selector on the right tank and was burning 13 gal/hr at 120 knots.  I set the timer, dropped the right wing and put in full left rudder to hold a steady heading.  31 seconds later the engine began to surge. I switched to the left tank and seconds later the engine recovered and ran smoothly. I repeated this experiment 3 times on the right tank and the interval was 31 to 35 seconds. I switched to the left tank and did the same tests and the results were the same.   

I believe the fuel pick up which is located at the lowest corner of the fuel tank is being unported when the fuel moves to the wing extremities in these uncoordinated maneuvers.  

I intend to do this experiment with more fuel in the tank to see at what fuel levels the pick up can be unported.  I will also test this on my F1 Rocket.  

It looks like my pattern approach has to be rethought and cross winds considered when I select which tank to land on.  

There does not seem to be an end to the stuff to learn in this endeavor.  

Wayne Hadath  

RV 10, 82 hrs  

F1 Rocket, 435 hrs  

   

       [quote][b]

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:49 pm Post subject: Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach

Wayne, that is an awesome report....thanks!  Fits in with a recent conversation on minimum useable fuel we just had here a couple weeks ago.

Tim





On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:19 PM, "Wayne Hadath" <whadath(at)rogers.com (whadath(at)rogers.com)> wrote:



[quote]     st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }  <![endif]-->           

It has been my practice to enter the airport pattern on the right tank due to left hand circuits and in my experience mostly left hand crosswinds. This practice has served me well until recently.

 I was coming back to Kitchener Ontario from Portsmouth NH just after hurricane Earl had moved up the US East coast and the winds were strong and gusting from the north   west. The trip which usually takes 2.5 hrs took 3 hours and 40 minutes. Most of the trip I was grounding 120 to 125 kts but at times I was down to 107 kts.  

As I approached my home airport I was cleared to a 4 mile final on runway 26 with reported winds  300 at 23 gusting 37 knots.   

This gave me a 40 degree cross wind. I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals in the right tank and had chosen the right tank for approach and landing. I was indicating 110 kts on approach but grounding 75. Runway 26 is 7500 feet and I had decided not to land at the threshold due to past experience with turbulence at the threshold of 26 due to some trees. I was planning to attempt touch down about Â¼ way down the runway. The turbulence on approach was considerable and I need almost all of the left rudder to keep the right wing low and the aircraft lined up with the runway. As I came over the threshold the engine began to surge adding to the difficulty to keep the aircraft stable. I generally land power off so I decided rather than switch tanks I just pulled power to idle and continued with the landing. My major concern at the time was that this had now become a landing and not an attempt to land as I had no power to go around. As fortune would have it the turbulence subsided as I went into the flair and the landing was uneventful. I switched to left tank and taxied back to the hangar. My family was onboard and we talked about what had just happen and I said I would trouble shoot the problem as this was not a situation that I would like repeated.  

I decided to drain the fuel tanks to confirm the gauges were accurate and yes they were and I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals in the right. I pulled the gascolator and it was free of debris. I did a fuel flow test on each side and confirmed that the flows were good.  

The weather was clear today so I decided to see if I could duplicate the surging but at 4000 feet.   

The aircraft did not surge on either tank while taxiing or in cruise and in coordinated turns.   

I turned on the boost pump put the selector on the right tank and was burning 13 gal/hr at 120 knots.  I set the timer, dropped the right wing and put in full left rudder to hold a steady heading.  31 seconds later the engine began to surge. I switched to the left tank and seconds later the engine recovered and ran smoothly. I repeated this experiment 3 times on the right tank and the interval was 31 to 35 seconds. I switched to the left tank and did the same tests and the results were the same.   

I believe the fuel pick up which is located at the lowest corner of the fuel tank is being unported when the fuel moves to the wing extremities in these uncoordinated maneuvers.  

I intend to do this experiment with more fuel in the tank to see at what fuel levels the pick up can be unported.  I will also test this on my F1 Rocket.  

It looks like my pattern approach has to be rethought and cross winds considered when I select which tank to land on.  

There does not seem to be an end to the stuff to learn in this endeavor.  

Wayne Hadath  

RV 10, 82 hrs  

F1 Rocket, 435 hrs  

   

        	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ehm6006

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 8

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:52 am Post subject: Engine surging on RV 10 on Landing approach

Different airplane, but in my Beech Sierra maximum slip duration is  

30 seconds.



Ed

On Sep 20, 2010, at 8:19 PM, Wayne Hadath wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal,  

 div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt;  

 font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink  

 {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited,  

 span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text- 

 decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal- 

 compose; font-family:Arial; color:windowtext;} (at)page Section1 {size: 

 8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1  

 {page:Section1;} -->

 It has been my practice to enter the airport pattern on the right  

 tank due to left hand circuits and in my experience mostly left  

 hand crosswinds. This practice has served me well until recently.

 I was coming back to Kitchener Ontario from Portsmouth NH just  

 after hurricane Earl had moved up the US East coast and the winds  

 were strong and gusting from the north west. The trip which usually  

 takes 2.5 hrs took 3 hours and 40 minutes. Most of the trip I was  

 grounding 120 to 125 kts but at times I was down to 107 kts.



 As I approached my home airport I was cleared to a 4 mile final on  

 runway 26 with reported winds  300 at 23 gusting 37 knots.



 This gave me a 40 degree cross wind. I had 9 gals in the left and 7  

 gals in the right tank and had chosen the right tank for approach  

 and landing. I was indicating 110 kts on approach but grounding 75.  

 Runway 26 is 7500 feet and I had decided not to land at the  

 threshold due to past experience with turbulence at the threshold  

 of 26 due to some trees. I was planning to attempt touch down about  

 ¼ way down the runway. The turbulence on approach was considerable  

 and I need almost all of the left rudder to keep the right wing low  

 and the aircraft lined up with the runway. As I came over the  

 threshold the engine began to surge adding to the difficulty to  

 keep the aircraft stable. I generally land power off so I decided  

 rather than switch tanks I just pulled power to idle and continued  

 with the landing. My major concern at the time was that this had  

 now become a landing and not an attempt to land as I had no power  

 to go around. As fortune would have it the turbulence subsided as I  

 went into the flair and the landing was uneventful. I switched to  

 left tank and taxied back to the hangar. My family was onboard and  

 we talked about what had just happen and I said I would trouble  

 shoot the problem as this was not a situation that I would like  

 repeated.



 I decided to drain the fuel tanks to confirm the gauges were  

 accurate and yes they were and I had 9 gals in the left and 7 gals  

 in the right. I pulled the gascolator and it was free of debris. I  

 did a fuel flow test on each side and confirmed that the flows were  

 good.



 The weather was clear today so I decided to see if I could  

 duplicate the surging but at 4000 feet.



 The aircraft did not surge on either tank while taxiing or in  

 cruise and in coordinated turns.



 I turned on the boost pump put the selector on the right tank and  

 was burning 13 gal/hr at 120 knots.  I set the timer, dropped the  

 right wing and put in full left rudder to hold a steady heading.   

 31 seconds later the engine began to surge. I switched to the left  

 tank and seconds later the engine recovered and ran smoothly. I  

 repeated this experiment 3 times on the right tank and the interval  

 was 31 to 35 seconds. I switched to the left tank and did the same  

 tests and the results were the same.



 I believe the fuel pick up which is located at the lowest corner of  

 the fuel tank is being unported when the fuel moves to the wing  

 extremities in these uncoordinated maneuvers.



 I intend to do this experiment with more fuel in the tank to see at  

 what fuel levels the pick up can be unported.  I will also test  

 this on my F1 Rocket.



 It looks like my pattern approach has to be rethought and cross  

 winds considered when I select which tank to land on.



 There does not seem to be an end to the stuff to learn in this  

 endeavor.



 Wayne Hadath



 RV 10, 82 hrs



 F1 Rocket, 435 hrs



 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum