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jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:10 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi all,

 

 It’s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years of successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly filled by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a result, I have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I can enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I was hoping someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which direction to follow.

 I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do like the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.

 Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?

 

 Thanks in anticipation.

 John

 

        [quote][b]

teds532(at)wk.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:45 am Post subject: KIS Sold

HOW MUCH DID YOU SELL YOUR CRUISER  FOR.

 [quote]   ---

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:29 am Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi John,



Both the RV7 and the Lancair 360 are great aircraft but have you considered a TR1 with a big engine?  In many ways it is very similar to the Cruiser so would be very simple and similar for you to finish, fly and maintain.  And a lot less money.  Of course it is not as fast as the complex Lancair 360 but with the same size engine and the same effort in making it clean it should be as fast or maybe faster then the RV7.  All will have about the same useful load.



Mark Kettering

--

jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: KIS Sold

$115 000

 

 John

 

 

 From: ted scott <[url=teds532(at)wk.net]teds532(at)wk.net[/url]>

 Reply-To: <[url=kis-list(at)matronics.com]kis-list(at)matronics.com[/url]>

 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:44:23 -0500

 To: <[url=kis-list(at)matronics.com]kis-list(at)matronics.com[/url]>

 Subject: Re: KIS Sold

 

 HOW MUCH DID YOU SELL YOUR CRUISER FOR.

 [quote] 

 ---

jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Mark,



No, to be honest, I hadn't considered the TR-1. I didn't think they were

still available.

Are they?



John





[quote] From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

 Reply-To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:27:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

 To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: KIS Sold

 

 

 

 Hi John,

 

 Both the RV7 and the Lancair 360 are great aircraft but have you considered a

 TR1 with a big engine?  In many ways it is very similar to the Cruiser so

 would be very simple and similar for you to finish, fly and maintain.  And a

 lot less money.  Of course it is not as fast as the complex Lancair 360 but

 with the same size engine and the same effort in making it clean it should be

 as fast or maybe faster then the RV7.  All will have about the same useful

 load.

 

 Mark Kettering

 

 

 --

jason(at)hills.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:57 am Post subject: KIS Sold

Faster than an RV-7 might be a bit optimistic. I can almost keep up with an IO-360/180hp RV-7 running lean of peak in my O-290-D2 powered TR-1c, but I'm pushing pretty hard to do that. Not sure how much more an O-320 would get, although in any case you'd be running really close to Vne if you could outrun an RV.



..Jason

Oct 26, 2010 11:37:45 AM, kis-list(at)matronics.com wrote:



===========================================






Hi Mark,



No, to be honest, I hadn't considered the TR-1. I didn't think they were

still available.

Are they?



John





[quote] From: Mark Kettering 

 Reply-To: 

 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:27:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

 To: 

 Subject: Re: KIS Sold

 

 

 

 Hi John,

 

 Both the RV7 and the Lancair 360 are great aircraft but have you considered a

 TR1 with a big engine?  In many ways it is very similar to the Cruiser so

 would be very simple and similar for you to finish, fly and maintain.  And a

 lot less money.  Of course it is not as fast as the complex Lancair 360 but

 with the same size engine and the same effort in making it clean it should be

 as fast or maybe faster then the RV7.  All will have about the same useful

 load.

 

 Mark Kettering

 

 

 --

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

An RV fastbuild kit hands down.  If you build the Cruiser then you'll have that RV done in a year if you buy that fastbuild and FWF kits.  

  

 The lancair is a great airplane, but the cost is much higher for the kit, the engine, and the RG insurance will be a lot higher.  It is fast, but the landing speed is much higher too.  Unless you do a lot of long range cross country and don't plan on flying into any shorter strips, then I don't think you'll get a lot for the extra money.

  

 Also, a well built RV is pretty easy to sell.  I kind of with I would have built an RV.  

  

 Scott



--- On Mon, 10/25/10, John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za>

Subject: KIS Sold

To: "KIS-List Digest Server" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 9:08 PM



 Hi all,



Itâ€™s been 14 years since I received my KIS Cruiser kit and 10 years of successful flying. However, the idea of the 4 seats being constantly filled by my family appears to be more of a dream than a reality. As a result, I have just sold my plane and am now looking for a 2 place kit which I can enjoy with my one son who is also passionate about aircraft. So, I was hoping someone on this list could give me some useful advice on which direction to follow.

I am currently looking at either an RV7 or a Lancair 360. I really do like the speed of the Lancair, but also the simplicity of the RV.

Does anyone have any other better suggestions and advice?



Thanks in anticipation.

John



 	  Quote: 	
		  



=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com

llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


         [quote][b]

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

10/26/2010



Hello Mark, You wrote: "..... have you considered a TR1 with a big engine?"



Good recommendation.



But how would one go about acquiring a new KIS TR-1 (Pulsar 150) kit to 

construct?



Would you send a bunch of money off to El Salvador, or wherever, in hopes of 

eventually getting a complete KIS TR-1 (Pulsar 150) kit?



OC



===============================================================

---

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Jason,



You are almost keeping up with just 125 hp?  Compared to 180hp in an RV7?  Wow!  Just by that alone I would say your aircraft with 180 hp would have no problem beating an RV7.  Why not put an IO-360 in a TR1?  Not just an O-320.  Scott did it.



The Vne of the TR1 is listed as 216 mph IAS.  At 8k MSL this is about 250 mph true.  I do not think you will have a problem in this area.  



Mark



--

BAERTLEIN(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

I have a TR1 fuselage kit for sale ,if anyone is interested, and Pulsar has  a line on a new wing kit available in the states.

 Thanks Keith

  

  In a message dated 10/26/2010 4:26:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  bakerocb(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    KIS-List message posted by:    <bakerocb(at)cox.net>



10/26/2010



Hello Mark, You wrote:    "..... have you considered a TR1 with a big engine?"



Good    recommendation.



But how would one go about acquiring a new KIS TR-1    (Pulsar 150) kit to 

construct?



Would you send a bunch of money off    to El Salvador, or wherever, in hopes of 

eventually getting a complete KIS    TR-1 (Pulsar 150)    kit?



OC



===============================================================

-----    Original Message ----- 

From: "Mark Kettering"    <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent:    Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:27 PM

Subject: Re: KIS    Sold

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering    <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>



Hi John,



Both the RV7 and the    Lancair 360 are great aircraft but have you considered 

a TR1 with a big    engine?  In many ways it is very similar to the Cruiser so 

would be    very simple and similar for you to finish, fly and maintain.  And a    

lot less money.  Of course it is not as fast as the complex Lancair    360 but 

with the same size engine and the same effort in making it clean    it should 

be as fast or maybe faster then the RV7.  All will have    about the same 

useful load.



Mark  ========================bsp;  e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


  [quote][b]

BAERTLEIN(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

I have a TR1

  

  In a message dated 10/26/2010 4:26:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  bakerocb(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    KIS-List message posted by:    <bakerocb(at)cox.net>



10/26/2010



Hello Mark, You wrote:    "..... have you considered a TR1 with a big engine?"



Good    recommendation.



But how would one go about acquiring a new KIS TR-1    (Pulsar 150) kit to 

construct?



Would you send a bunch of money off    to El Salvador, or wherever, in hopes of 

eventually getting a complete KIS    TR-1 (Pulsar 150)    kit?



OC



===============================================================

-----    Original Message ----- 

From: "Mark Kettering"    <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent:    Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:27 PM

Subject: Re: KIS    Sold

--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering    <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>



Hi John,



Both the RV7 and the    Lancair 360 are great aircraft but have you considered 

a TR1 with a big    engine?  In many ways it is very similar to the Cruiser so 

would be    very simple and similar for you to finish, fly and maintain.  And a    

lot less money.  Of course it is not as fast as the complex Lancair    360 but 

with the same size engine and the same effort in making it clean    it should 

be as fast or maybe faster then the RV7.  All will have    about the same 

useful load.



Mark  ========================bsp;  e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


  [quote][b]

jason(at)hills.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

O-290-D2 is 135 or 140hp I believe.... I burn almost 1 gph less than the 180 hp RV7 while nearly keeping up with him (I usually got off the ground ahead of him, and he landed 5-10 minutes ahead of me on a 3-4 hr leg). I'd have to look up the numbers, but I believe I used about 15% less fuel round trip Seattle to OSH in 2009 compared to the RV-7 I was flying with. Of course if he went rich of peak and pushed for max cruise speed I would have been left well behind, but at a pretty steep cost in extra fuel.



So I'd say the TR-1 is more efficient than an RV7 (it's also a smaller cockpit). With the same engine it should absolutely beat the RV7. On the other hand that's a lot more engine than was originally put on the nose of the plane, and the RV guys are tending to put on even bigger engines themselves (IO-390 etc).



I've done a few things to my plane to make it a bit more efficient. I picked up almost 5 kts changing my wheels & wheelpants to Van's pressure recovery pants for the RV-8, for example.



..Jason

Oct 26, 2010 05:37:52 PM, kis-list(at)matronics.com wrote:



===========================================






Hi Jason,



You are almost keeping up with just 125 hp?  Compared to 180hp in an RV7?  Wow!  Just by that alone I would say your aircraft with 180 hp would have no problem beating an RV7.  Why not put an IO-360 in a TR1?  Not just an O-320.  Scott did it.



The Vne of the TR1 is listed as 216 mph IAS.  At 8k MSL this is about 250 mph true.  I do not think you will have a problem in this area.  



Mark



--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Scott,



In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.  Fantastic fit, instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale value and much more.  But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more than a kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.  Compared to a more modern composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.  They tend to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful load and even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to finish and take a fair amount of time.  Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs empty weight!  I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.  Or was it well under 900 lbs?



I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your plane is a much better choice.  Yes there are problems with the TR1.  But at least the wings tend to stay on.



Mark 

--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Jason,

  

 Do you have fairings on the gear legs?  tailwheel?

  

 I'd talk to a good engine shop that does performance stuff (I used lycon in CA) and see if they make high compression pistons for you engine and ask about porting the heads.  My engine went from 180 to 220+ HP with 10:1 pistons and ported heads (227 was the best number, but he leaned it a little).  I'd bet you could get close to 170 HP out of your current engine with much less money and work than a 360 conversion.

  

 Scott

  

  

 



--- On Tue, 10/26/10, jason(at)hills.org <jason(at)hills.org> wrote:



 [quote]

From: jason(at)hills.org <jason(at)hills.org>

Subject: Re: KIS Sold

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 6:30 PM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: jason(at)hills.org (jason(at)hills.org)



O-290-D2 is 135 or 140hp I believe.... I burn almost 1 gph less than the 180 hp RV7 while nearly keeping up with him (I usually got off the ground ahead of him, and he landed 5-10 minutes ahead of me on a 3-4 hr leg). I'd have to look up the numbers, but I believe I used about 15% less fuel round trip Seattle to OSH in 2009 compared to the RV-7 I was flying with. Of course if he went rich of peak and pushed for max cruise speed I would have been left well behind, but at a pretty steep cost in extra fuel.



So I'd say the TR-1 is more efficient than an RV7 (it's also a smaller cockpit). With the same engine it should absolutely beat the RV7. On the other hand that's a lot more engine than was originally put on the nose of the plane, and the RV guys are tending to put  on even bigger engines themselves (IO-390 etc).



I've done a few things to my plane to make it a bit more efficient. I picked up almost 5 kts changing my wheels & wheelpants to Van's pressure recovery pants for the RV-8, for example.



...Jason

Oct 26, 2010 05:37:52 PM, kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) wrote:



===========================================



--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering 



Hi Jason,



You are almost keeping up with just 125 hp?  Compared to 180hp in an RV7?  Wow!  Just by that alone I would say your aircraft with 180 hp would have no problem beating an RV7.  Why not put an IO-360 in a TR1?  Not just an O-320.  Scott did it.



The Vne of the TR1 is listed as 216 mph IAS.  At 8k MSL this is about 250 mph true.  I do not  think you will have a problem in this area.  



Mark



--

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:21 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Mark,

  

 My airplane is about 850 lbs with the super heavy starter, IFR panel and big engine, about 300 lbs lighter than a comparable RV.  If the KIS kit had the known deficiencies addressed and a good manual and builder support it would kill any RV.   I kind of wish you would have bought the rights to everything when you had the chance.  

  

 I wouldn't do anything in an RV that I wouldn't do a grumman tiger due to the in flight failure history of the RVs.  

  

 Scott  



--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: KIS Sold

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 6:47 PM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>



Hi Scott,



In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.  Fantastic fit, instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale value and much more.  But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more than a kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.  Compared to a more modern composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.  They tend to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful load and even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to finish and take a fair amount of time.  Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs empty weight!  I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.  Or  was it well under 900 lbs?



I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your plane is a much better choice.  Yes there are problems with the TR1.  But at least the wings tend to stay on.



Mark 

--

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Jason,



You are right, the O-290-D2 is 135 hp continuous.  All of the non D2 versions are 125 hp.



Still, I think you are correct in saying the TR1 is a more efficient airframe.  I agree the cockpit is a little smaller but I think the useful load tends to be a little higher.



Mark 

--

jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:55 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Mark,



You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions though:

1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?

2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?

3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are the

CG implications?



John





[quote] From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>

 Reply-To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT)

 To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: KIS Sold

 

 

 

 Hi Scott,

 

 In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.  Fantastic fit,

 instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale value and

 much more.  But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more than a

 kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.  Compared to a more modern

 composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.  They tend

 to be slower (for a given engine and stall speed), have less useful load and

 even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to finish

 and take a fair amount of time.  Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs empty

 weight!  I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.  Or was

 it well under 900 lbs?

 

 I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your plane is a

 much better choice.  Yes there are problems with the TR1.  But at least the

 wings tend to stay on.

 

 Mark 

 

 

 --

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:09 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi Jason,

  

 I can take on the third one as I have an IO-360 (parallel valve) in my TR-1.  I put my battery behind the aft fuselage bulkhead to help with the CG and I have a taildragger.  You can use you current wieght and balance and just add the wieght difference with the approximate moment arm of the engine.  My CG is fine, I'd even like it to be a bit further forward, but my cowls are also carbon.  

  

 I have the cowling originally intended for the IO-240 and I had to modify the lower cowl with the inlet from Van's.  It just bearly fits widthwise.  I have about 1/8 inch on each side at the closest point.  Also you'll need an angle adaptor for the oil filter or it will hit the firewall.  And I needed to make the air inlets larger and the cowl exit larger for cooling.  

  

 It would be quite a project to convert to a 360, but it works.  I still think you'd be better off modifying the 290 if it will respond to mods like the 360 does.

  

 Scott



--- On Tue, 10/26/10, John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za> wrote:



 [quote]

From: John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za>

Subject: Re: KIS Sold

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 7:53 PM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)>



Mark,



You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions though:

1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?

2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?

3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are the

CG implications?



John





[quote] From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

 Reply-To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400  (EDT)

 To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Subject: Re: KIS Sold

 

 --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Hi Scott,

 

 In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.  Fantastic fit,

 instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale value and

 much more.  But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more than a

 kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.  Compared to a more modern

 composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.  They tend

 to be slower (for a given engine and stall  speed), have less useful load and

 even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to finish

 and take a fair amount of time.  Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs empty

 weight!  I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.  Or was

 it well under 900 lbs?

 

 I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your plane is a

 much better choice.  Yes there are problems with the TR1.  But at least the

 wings tend to stay on.

 

 Mark 

 

 

 --

jason(at)hills.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:48 pm Post subject: KIS Sold

Scott/Mark,

I'm not planning any major engine upgrades for my plane, at least not just yet... I just overhauled the engine 2 years ago. 

Current projects are getting the bugs out of the new engine monitor system (JPI EDM 740), improving engine cooling (problems found with the new engine monitor), then probably adding a TruTrak autopilot coupled to the 430W, and upgrading to a more efficient prop. Maybe after all of that if I need more speed I'll consider doing some upgrades to the engine.... 

For whoever asked, my plane is a taildragger, and I did add gear leg intersection fairings this past summer. We considered fairing the legs themselves, but decided it probably wasn't really worth the effort, at least for now.

Of course I'm also building an RV-8 in my garage. Not because the KIS isn't a good plane, just because I want to build an RV. I do appreciate the short field performance, lower stall speed and higher aerobatic g-limits of the RV (compared to the KIS), and I really like the tandem design. Plus I didn't build my KIS, and I'm having a lot of fun building. Although I've learned a TON working on the TR-1c the past 5.5 years... having now pretty much redone the firewall forward and the panel.

...Jason



On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:07 PM, Scott Stearns wrote:

[quote]Hi Jason,

  

 I can take on the third one as I have an IO-360 (parallel valve) in my TR-1.  I put my battery behind the aft fuselage bulkhead to help with the CG and I have a taildragger.  You can use you current wieght and balance and just add the wieght difference with the approximate moment arm of the engine.  My CG is fine, I'd even like it to be a bit further forward, but my cowls are also carbon.  

  

 I have the cowling originally intended for the IO-240 and I had to modify the lower cowl with the inlet from Van's.  It just bearly fits widthwise.  I have about 1/8 inch on each side at the closest point.  Also you'll need an angle adaptor for the oil filter or it will hit the firewall.  And I needed to make the air inlets larger and the cowl exit larger for cooling.  

  

 It would be quite a project to convert to a 360, but it works.  I still think you'd be better off modifying the 290 if it will respond to mods like the 360 does.

  

 Scott



--- On Tue, 10/26/10, John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)> wrote:



 [quote]

From: John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)>

Subject: Re: KIS Sold

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

Date: Tuesday, October 26, 2010, 7:53 PM



 --> KIS-List message posted by: John Petrie <jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za (jpetrie(at)sonicfactory.co.za)>



Mark,



You make a very good argument for the TR-1. I have a few questions though:

1. What do you mean by "...the wings tend to stay on"?

2. How does the cockpit size compare to the Lancair?

3. Is it really possible to fit an O-360 to the TR-1 and if so, what are the

CG implications?



John





[quote] From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

 Reply-To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:47:04 -0400  (EDT)

 To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>

 Subject: Re: KIS Sold

 

 --> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Hi Scott,

 

 In many ways the RV 7 kits are the best kits in the world.  Fantastic fit,

 instructions, factory support, third party support, options, resale value and

 much more.  But they are not the best aircraft. They are little more than a

 kit of 1960's designs like the Grummans or others.  Compared to a more modern

 composite aircraft they really are not all that good of performers.  They tend

 to be slower (for a given engine and stall  speed), have less useful load and

 even with being a great kit they still tend to cost a fair amount to finish

 and take a fair amount of time.  Most of the RV 7s are over 1200 lbs empty

 weight!  I think even your big engine IFR TR1 is well under 1000 lbs.  Or was

 it well under 900 lbs?

 

 I know being part of the RV club has it's own draw but I think your plane is a

 much better choice.  Yes there are problems with the TR1.  But at least the

 wings tend to stay on.

 

 Mark 

 

 

 --

mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: KIS Sold

Hi John,



I think Scott answered 1 and 3.  I do not know how large the Lancair cockpit is.  I remember seeing a web page that listed cockpit widths sometime ago but do not remember where.  Also width does not tell the whole story.  You really need to go and sit in them yourself to try them out for size and shape.



Mark

--

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