r.twellmann(at)steute.com
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 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: AW: Re: Re: Landing the KIS TR-1 |
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Hello all,
i am flying the KIS Taildragger and always try to land in a 3-point attitude and most of the time i need only half of the runway which is 600 meters long. So i come down with a high aoa and slow.
i never experienced a nose drop during the 250+ landings i made so far. I land with full flaps which means approx. 30 degrees with my plane and i have a 2" elevator extention.
Regards from Germany,
Ralf Twellmann
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Gesendet: Fri Apr 08 06:23:18 2011
Betreff: Re: KIS-List: Re: Landing the KIS TR-1
I'm pretty sure the pitch down issue on landing is due to the main wheels being a bit too far aft and the elevator being a bit too small. It doesn't take much of an error in wheel placement to make a big difference in rotation speed and pitch down after touchdown.
When I was an engineer working on the proof of concept airplane for the Adam A500 we ended up with the main wheels a few inches aft of where they should have been (long story, not my fault!). The airplane hit about 100 KIAS before it could be rotated for takeoff and there was no holding the nose off after landing. Proteus is another good example. The main wheels are well aft due to the design and the nose comes crashing down right after touchdown.
Scott
--- On Thu, 4/7/11, Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Re: Landing the KIS TR-1
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, April 7, 2011, 3:10 PM
--> KIS-List message posted by: Mark Kettering <mantafs(at)earthlink.net (mantafs(at)earthlink.net)>
| Quote: | Fully agreed with Mark that, if the resultant vertical momentum is too high at touchdown, the weight of the engine will take the upper hand in forcing the nose down.
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Actually even if there is no (or almost no) vertical momentum on touchdown the nose can still slam down due to the upward force that was being generated by the wing now being generated by the main gear farther aft.
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I was merely looking for potential causal factors of such undesirable end result which could catch one unawares even when apparently doing nothing overtly wrong. In that sense the equation did point out that - as rear end of flaps get closer to the ground - flow velocity becomes restricted and probability of flow reversal increases; all of which reduces lift of the inner wing area. Empirical or not, it seems to make intuitive sense and I shall at least keep that effect in mind when I have full flaps deployed in approach. Also good to hear from Mark that TR-1 will not easily get into the CL > 2 region.
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I agree with looking for any potential causal factors. I also agree that with big flaps near the ground there could be flow restriction and maybe reversal. But I am not so sure this will produce less lift. Not that I am at all a fan of wings in ground effect craft but they do work and tend to have very low aspect ratios and very low trailing edge ground clearance. Most do not have flaps but have lots of camber.
| Quote: | Must admit that I have not personally experienced nose dropping - perhaps because I don't hold off, but instead fly the gear into touch with conservative angle of attack as I was instructed to do at hot and high fields. I seems to work everywhere else too.
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Do you know if your main gear are at the stock location or at some other location?
Mark
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