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KIS accidents??

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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:48 pm Post subject: KIS accidents??

After reading about Alfred's incident I was wondering, does anybody know how many serious accidents KIS airplanes have had over the years due to airplane failure? Numbers and probable cause for both the TR-1 and TR-4 where the airplane was a total loss.

  

Galin

 

   

  [quote][b]

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: KIS accidents??

There have been six or seven with the TR-4 that I am aware of.  The original prototype had an engine failure, set down in a plowed field, flipped on it's back but had rather minor damage and flew again.  First customer built version had door open, pilot tried to close but jammed seat cushion into controls, crashed knot orchard trees and destroyed plane, pilot injured but ok.  Second factory demonstrator which used Cont.IO-360 was destroyed and pilot killed when Solley left it to get upgrade on interior and someone who apparently shouldn't have been flying couldn't land the plane aster more than one attempt.  First Subaru version in south Africa had engine failure and had off field landing.  It was repaired and engine replaced with Lycoming and is still flying.  The plane shown on my website home page had engine failure, set down with damage and burned but no fatalities.  The latest report was a Cruiser that I didn't

t even know was in the DFW area that had engine failure on takeoff with fatalities to pilot and his wife.  A couple of minor incidents including yours.  The only thing I would call a failure of the aircraft might be the problem with the doors opening in flight.  I haven't kept up with the TR-1 accidents.



Those are the only ones I have heard about.  





Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]After reading about Alfred's incident I was wondering, does anybody know how many serious accidents KIS airplanes have had over the years due to airplane failure? Numbers and probable cause for both the TR-1 and TR-4 where the airplane was a total loss.

  

Galin

 

   

   	  Quote: 	
		  



===================================

ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

===================================

ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

sstearns2(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: KIS accidents??

--- On Fri, 4/22/11, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

Subject: KIS accidents??

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, April 22, 2011, 7:44 PM

 After reading about Alfred's incident I was wondering, does anybody know how many serious accidents KIS airplanes have had over the years due to airplane failure? Numbers and probable cause for both the TR-1 and TR-4 where the airplane was a total loss.

Galin

 	  Quote: 	

 [quote][b]

lgdavid(at)roadrunner.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:12 pm Post subject: KIS accidents??

My TR1 with a Subaru engine went into limp home mode on my second     test flight and I made an off field landing in a celery field.      Since the engine was still turning at about 1100 rpm, it tore the     nose off as it ground to a halt in the field.  Plane protected me     and kept me alive, but I never rebuilt it.  The left turn in the     nose was part of the decision but more importantly Gasohol had eaten     into the webbing of the main spar and weakened it so that it snapped     on the landing.  Strangely, the rear spar was still in tack.  So you     can add one to the not rebuilt column of damaged TR1s.  Larry

     

     On 4/22/2011 8:32 PM, Robert Reed wrote:     [quote]       There have been six or seven with the TR-4 that I am aware         of.  The original prototype had an engine failure, set down in a         plowed field, flipped on it's back but had rather minor damage         and flew again.  First customer built version had door open,         pilot tried to close but jammed seat cushion into controls,         crashed knot orchard trees and destroyed plane, pilot injured         but ok.  Second factory demonstrator which used Cont.IO-360 was         destroyed and pilot killed when Solley left it to get upgrade on         interior and someone who apparently shouldn't have been flying         couldn't land the plane aster more than one attempt.  First         Subaru version in south Africa had engine failure and had off         field landing.  It was repaired and engine replaced with         Lycoming and is still flying.  The plane shown on my website         home page had engine failure, set down with damage and burned         but no fatalities.  The latest report was a Cruiser that I         didn't

       t even know was in the DFW area that had engine failure on         takeoff with fatalities to pilot and his wife.  A couple of         minor incidents including yours.  The only thing I would call a         failure of the aircraft might be the problem with the doors         opening in flight.  I haven't kept up with the TR-1 accidents.

       

         Those are the only ones I have heard about.  

       

       

       

       

       Sent from my iPhone

       

         On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)>         wrote:

         

       

       

        	  Quote: 	
		           After reading about Alfred's incident I was wondering, does           anybody know how many serious accidents KIS airplanes have had           over the years due to airplane failure? Numbers and probable           cause for both the TR-1 and TR-4 where the airplane was a           total loss.

           

           Galin

                      

                      

            	  Quote: 	
		  



===================================

ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

===================================

ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

===================================

http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	
         

       

	
     [b]

katebob10(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:25 am Post subject: KIS accidents??

TR-1, N232AN was totally destroyed on July 30, 2007 due to a failure of the left wing push rod attached to the aileron. NTSB determined the rivets were not installed in the rod where it attached to the aileron. Pilot (me) was seriously injured. I was third owner of this aircraft.

From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com>

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, April 22, 2011 9:44:59 PM

Subject: KIS accidents??

 After reading about Alfred's incident I was wondering, does anybody know how many serious accidents KIS airplanes have had over the years due to airplane failure? Numbers and probable cause for both the TR-1 and TR-4 where the airplane was a total loss.

Galin

  [quote]

[b]

BlueSkyFlier

Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 74
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: KIS accidents??

I know of three incidents here in the UK where TR-1 doors opened in flight, the last one in latter half of last year.  Two doors are still missing in action and nobody the worse for it, the third one came open just after takeoff and was damaged but passenger managed to pull it down again although his headset was flapping out the side. Other than a new hole in the pilot's seat cover, no problems ) These planes are all still flying today.



A quick scan of the UK register shows one TR-1 destroyed in 1997 and one TR4 Cruiser destroyed in 2009. Apparently no fatalities or serious injuries (but I could not find the AAIB report of the 1997 accident) [edited after memory kicked into gear ... there was one fatality in a TR-1, possibly the 1997 incident. It happened off the coast of France whilst the pilot was flying low altitude maneuvres over the sea.]



Other than the destroyed aircraft, three TR-1s without wings here in UK, two of these are tail draggers (damaged in landing incidents) and the third is/was mine (taxi incident).



Seven TR-1s are still on the register her in the UK (incl the three without wings ) John Petrie probably knows the record for South Africa. A good tally of kits were bought by the guys there.



Regards,

             Alfred

_________________
_________________________________________

wschertz(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject: KIS accidents??

An early newsletter (back when they had newsletters) told of a European 

crash into the sea (with fatality) 1997 would have been about right.



Bill Schertz

KIS Cruiser #4045

N343BS

Phase one testing Completed

--

cody.r.austin(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: KIS accidents??

Here is a website with detail on a KIS Cruiser crash.



http://www.sdsefi.com/air34.htm



- Cody



On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Bob and Kathy <katebob10(at)yahoo.com (katebob10(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]TR-1, N232AN was totally destroyed on July 30, 2007 due to a failure of the left wing push rod attached to the aileron. NTSB determined the rivets were not installed in the rod where it attached to the aileron. Pilot (me) was seriously injured. I was third owner of this aircraft.

 



From: Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> 

To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)



Sent: Fri, April 22, 2011 9:44:59 PM 

Subject: KIS accidents??

 After reading about Alfred's incident I was wondering, does anybody know how many serious accidents KIS airplanes have had over the years due to airplane failure? Numbers and probable cause for both the TR-1 and TR-4 where the airplane was a total loss.

   

Galin

 

   

   	  Quote: 	
		  





et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: KIS accidents??

4/26/2011

  

 Hello Larry, You wrote: "..... Gasohol had  eaten into the webbing of the main spar and weakened it so that it snapped on  the landing."

  

 The above statement is the first time that I had heard of  this aspect of your accident. I am puzzled by this conclusion  because:

  

 A) Your airplane was so new that I have difficulty believing  that the ethanol alcohol (10 percent?) in the gasoline would have had enough  time to significantly weaken the spar.

  

 B) I did not believe that cured epoxy would be significantly  affected by ethanol alcohol, especially in such a short time as your airplane  existed.

  

 C) How did you conclude that the spar had indeed been weakened  by the ethanol alcohol.

  

 Can you please educate me? Thanks,

  

 OC

 ========================= 

 [quote]   From:    Larry    David (lgdavid(at)roadrunner.com) 

   To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 1:10    AM

   Subject: Re: KIS    accidents??

   



My TR1 with a Subaru engine went into limp home mode on my    second test flight and I made an off field landing in a celery field.     Since the engine was still turning at about 1100 rpm, it tore the nose off as    it ground to a halt in the field.  Plane protected me and kept me alive,    but I never rebuilt it.  The left turn in the nose was part of the    decision but more importantly Gasohol had eaten into the webbing of the main    spar and weakened it so that it snapped on the landing.  Strangely, the    rear spar was still in tack.  So you can add one to the not rebuilt    column of damaged TR1s.  Larry



[b]

bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:42 am Post subject: KIS accidents??

4/26/2011



Hello Alfred, You wrote: "A quick scan of the UK register shows one TR-1 

destroyed in 1997 and one TR4 Cruiser destroyed in 2009. Apparently no 

fatalities or serious injuries (but I could not find the AAIB report of the 

1997 accident)"



The October 1996 issue of the KIS and Tell newsletter reported on the loss 

of a KIS TR-1 and the death of the two occupants. This could be the 1997 

accident that you referred to above.



One of the occupants was Adrian Caple, who was an England representative of 

Tri-R Technologies, and was presumably demostrating the airplane to a 

prospective builder.



Here is what the newsletter said: "All investigations reported to date have 

indicated no evidence of aircraft structure or flight characteristics 

contributing to the accident. All damage noted was consistent with a high 

speed impact with the water."



OC

=====================================================

From: "BlueSkyFlier" <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>

To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:27 PM

Subject: Re: KIS accidents??

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <bleuskyfly(at)teledynamix.com>



 I know of three incidents here in the UK where TR-1 doors opened in 

 flight, the last one in latter half of last year.  Two doors are still 

 missing in action and nobody the worse for it, the third one came open 

 just after takeoff and was damaged but passenger managed to pull it down 

 again although his headset was flapping out the side. Other then a new 

 hole in the pilot's seat cover, no problems ) These planes are all still 

 flying today.



 A quick scan of the UK register shows one TR-1 destroyed in 1997 and one 

 TR4 Cruiser destroyed in 2009. Apparently no fatalities or serious 

 injuries (but I could not find the AAIB report of the 1997 accident)



 Other than that, three TR-1s without wings here in UK, two of these are 

 tail draggers and the third is/was mine.



 Seven TR-1s still on the register her in the UK (incl the three awaiting 

 new wings ) John Petrie probably knows the record for South Africa. A 

 good tally of kits were bought by the guys there.



 Regards,

             Alfred

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