raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject: Pip-pins in the Europa´s doors - more safety or not? (earli |
 |
|
Tim, Bruno and all who care about flight safety
This is an old threat and I am bit agonizing. But once more:
Sometimes we have to use our brains over The Rules. That is why we fly experimentals. Safety over The Rules. The rules follow sooner or later experimental wisdom.
***
Which case is more probable:
Every single Europa flight and any time of the flight you or your passenger may open the door handle by accident, because of careless manners, madness, illness, naivety, childishness or because she/he is a child
or
if once in a lifetime happens an emergency on the ground or emergency landing where you are still and well alive, still right side up but cannot open the door and people (there are people!) outside are not able to broke that thinniest plexiglass and the plane is burning and you will die because of that door pip-pin a´la me.
Make your choise.
Europa Aircraft have noticed that risk and in the BM they call the builder to make a guard to prevent unintended door opening during the flight. I went only a bit further and add also pip-pins. It was so easy to imagine, that my sleeve pick-up the lever and soon the door is open, separateing, hitting to the rudder/fin and almost killing them, air flow is awful, co-pilot is screaming because she understand this is the final, all the papers are flown away and an assymmetric drag is almost impossible to handle, thinking same time shoud I open also the other door to balance the plane and trying because of a strong drag to make an emergency landing with full power. No – I did not want to experience this and added pip-pins to both doors. Amen.
BTW in my POH /emergency situ list there is a line “before emergency landing take the door pip-pins out”. Happy now?
I used to take them away before every landing but refuced later because understood it is a risk itself (to pull out the pip-pins during the flight).
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Maybe so, but so what?
Typical certified planes are all metal and have small windows. If locked when emergency, it is a difficult task to take bodies out. The doors are also not easily openable during the flight (hinged fore). No reason to lock or for pip-pins.
Our Europa is plastic, has large windows with thin and weak plexi – easy to broke and take bodies out very fluently. I will not try but I am almost sure a normal man can open the door the bolts engaged by his hands only. If he has any tool or a stone he can do it surely. What more important – those doors would love to open during the flight! Pip-pin is for every-flight-safety!
***
I well remember – once I tried to open the door of our Cessna during cruise flight. With full power I opened it and got a cap 200-300 mm, no more.
BTW – Cessna 172N 1982 POH: before departure lock the doors!
There was a nice elbow rest in the door but it was imposible to use it without locking the door. And Cessna is certified machine I assume!
***
You are free to lose your doors during flight. I hope you are happy then and think: “ hey I am a pilot who follows the rules anyway “. RIP – he followed strictly every possible rules to the final end.
***
LAA says no no for in-glight locked doors. Obviously pip-pins in Europa´s door are criminal also if used them in-flight? You boys in UK have semi-experimentals if you have to follow so stupid rules. Judge yourself.
Same time you are allowed by LAA to use those very dangerous original auto type safety belts? And because they are allowed you use them. No matter dangerous or not.
And you are pushed to try VNE every year...can it be true?
In Finland and I assume in most countries you – the builder - are also the designer, who make the orders to The POH. Like using pip-pins or what so ever.
Pilot is a God in the plane with full responsibilitet – nothing is over her /him. Not even LAA.
Now I am sure I am soon invited to any LAA happening to talk about flight safety. Or instead of that maybe they will send some Spitfires to hunt me if I ever dare to fly over Channnel (which is my long time goal).
***
A little story from near history: during my Cessna time I use to have a smooth hammer in the plane. My habit was to show it to all my new passengers. I promised to knock their head if necessary. I said also that is ok according The International Flight Rules. Not true but they all believed and behavioured very well. I never hit anybody during the flight, believe me. That is strictly illegal but you can be sure I would have done it if necessary. Safety over The Rules...
I have nothing to say any more.
Cheers, Raimo Toivio (sometimes happily outlawed for a total safety)
[img]cid:0399A523A70743258F26E3518049AFF7(at)Asus[/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated Europa flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
Total flight time /landings: 872,45 /1423
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: houlihan (houlihan(at)blueyonder.co.uk)
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 12:57 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno.
Be advised that fitting a locking pin on the inside of the door could impede access to someone attempting to get you out in an emergency if you are unable to do it yourself, of course if its only your passenger it may not matter too much !.
( the last comment is not meant to be taken seriously ! ! :<))
That would not be allowed on a certified aircraft.
Tim
On 4 February 2012 09:59, uvtreith <uvtreith(at)t-online.de (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi Raimo,
In fact, my first idea was to use the green LEDs as you suggest. LEDs on = doors closed. But than I thought, better no lights on when system is ok. But you are right; green lights will give you a safer feeling. In my opinion, as the rear door bolts are critical, switches on the rear bolts should be do it.
I have seen your pippins to secure the handles. I will do the same for the passenger side.
Have a nice and safe flight time too.
All the best,
Bruno
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Raimo Toivio
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 20:03
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Re: AW: Deformation of canopy
Hi Bruno,
I elected to make a system which have two serial connected micro switches per door. When they are BOTH IN I have a green led. When I have two green leds I am pretty sure my doors are firmly closed.
Otherwice, they are open OR system is somehow broken. Two Greens = The System is operational = The Doors are closed.
Maybe you would like to have red lights (when doors are open) instead of greens or change MS´s to be NO (normally open [when doors are open]) as I have them.
I promise what more you see green lights when flying that happier you will be (there are possibilities to have masses of green)! 
***
Notice also my extra safety: there is also a pip-pin to prevent an unwanted inflight door opening.
Just my ½ penny or how those englismen that says so gently and good luck for you!
Raimo
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
[img][/img]
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 257,15 /466
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
toivio(at)fly.to (toivio(at)fly.to)
www.rwm.fi
From: uvtreith (uvtreith(at)t-online.de)
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 6:51 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi Roland,
I would leave the door inside its door frame and would wait for warmer days; maybe it will set by itself after a while.
The best protection for this is to built in an advice. I will install in springtime two micro switches mounted on an aluminium plate together with a common carriage bolt (Schloßschraube).
Please see attached pictures (just made for you). You have to make one mirror inverted (spiegelverkehrt). The switch-bolt arrangement weights 35 gramm each.
In my panel I have fitted two small green LED lights and the micro switches are openers. When the door is correctly closed, the LED will go out.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Im Auftrag von Roland
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2012 12:32
An: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Betreff: Deformation of canopy
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi all,
yesterday something embarrassing (and dangerous) happened to me. After departure (already in 5000 ft) I noticed that the door on the copilot-side was not locked on the rear side (I almost hear you saying: "that cannot happen when you worked through the checklist prior take off"). You are so right!
After the first shock (suddenly the appropriate passage of the POH came crystal clear in my mind: "when the door springs open it will most likely depart the aircraft") I asked my Co to pull the handle in front and I did the same on the rear.
I was so lucky to land with my Europa as a whole!! When leaving the aircraft my Co noticed a resistance when opening the door. It turned out, that the frame on the top of the door seemed to be deformed in a way that the gap between door and frame/roof became too small causing this resistance approximately when half open (then the door frame contacts the roof frame) . When complete open or closed everything seems normal. The hinges and screws where it's mounted are apparently undamaged.
Does anyone have a suggestion how to bring the door into a perfect fit again?
Thanks for your input!
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
Trigear XS
Rotax 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365518#365518
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
58.84 KB |
| Viewed: |
1040 Time(s) |
![Europa%20A2A-ala2OK[1].png](files/Europa_20A2A-ala2OK_1__286.png)
|
|
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
