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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
[quote][b]
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mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.n
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:07 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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I have had no further problems with fuel tank close out plate sealant since application of PR-1750 two part sealant from PRC Desoto. It is available through distributors such as Bergdahl Associates. Due to shelf life issues and market demand, some distributors may have to order it from PRC Desoto. The polysulfide sealants are typically rated for a few hundred degrees F. Current atmospheric temps should not played much of a roll in your problem. I would recommend the longer 4 hour pot life material. It is expensive and impervious to fuel containing alcohol. As far as I know, age is not a factor as much as substrate preparation for application of a polysulfide sealant. How tight are your close out plates to the fuselage when wings fully seated? If you are not sure then you could check with thin layer of modeling clay applied to suspect area and re seat the wing to verify. The fuel filler ring on the wing tank is an area, due to dissimilar material intersection with different coefficients of expansion, requires routine inspection. Since my wing tanks are sealed with Jeff co 9700 (has flexibility issues), I used a more flexible polysulfide coating to bridge the fuel filler ring transition area.
Regards - Dave Weaver
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, barrynorman(at)comcast.net <barrynorman(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: barrynorman(at)comcast.net <barrynorman(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tanks leaking
To: "pulsar-list" <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012, 8:24 AM
#yiv1954935960 p {margin:0;} Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
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[quote][b]
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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Thanks David. I think I have plenty of clearance between the plates and the plane. I used Chemseal CS 3204 when I put the plates on while building. I'll check out the PR-1750.
Barry
From: "David Weaver" <mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 12:06:57 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
I have had no further problems with fuel tank close out plate sealant since application of PR-1750 two part sealant from PRC Desoto. It is available through distributors such as Bergdahl Associates. Due to shelf life issues and market demand, some distributors may have to order it from PRC Desoto. The polysulfide sealants are typically rated for a few hundred degrees F. Current atmospheric temps should not played much of a roll in your problem. I would recommend the longer 4 hour pot life material. It is expensive and impervious to fuel containing alcohol. As far as I know, age is not a factor as much as substrate preparation for application of a polysulfide sealant. How tight are your close out plates to the fuselage when wings fully seated? If you are not sure then you could check with thin layer of modeling clay applied to suspect area and re seat the wing to verify. The fuel filler ring on the wing tank is an area, due to dissimilar material intersection with different coefficients of expansion, requires routine inspection. Since my wing tanks are sealed with Jeff co 9700 (has flexibility issues), I used a more flexible polysulfide coating to bridge the fuel filler ring transition area.
Regards - Dave Weaver
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, barrynorman(at)comcast.net <barrynorman(at)comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: barrynorman(at)comcast.net <barrynorman(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Tanks leaking
To: "pulsar-list" <pulsar-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012, 8:24 AM
#yiv1954935960 p {margin:0;} Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
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[quote]
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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pilot623(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
[quote][b]
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gregsmi
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 262
Location: Topeka, KS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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You bet. All should see the correction for the tanks.
In a message dated 7/5/2012 1:52:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, pilot623(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ulsar-List"' href='mip://0b90c5e8/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
='mip://0b90c5e8/3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
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n"' href='mip://0b90c5e8/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
cs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[quote][b]
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pilot623(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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I think you could use structural adhesive mixed with flox.
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
[quote]I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
---
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gregsmi
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 262
Location: Topeka, KS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Do not use structural adhesive on the fuel tank. The structural adhesive I tested dissolves in fuel with ethanol. Two things will happen, the adhesive in solution will get to your filters and carbs and could partially or fully block fuel flow. And, your tank will leak. None of that is good.
| Quote: | I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
cs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
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[quote][b]
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leubanks(at)sunflower.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:14 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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I believe Greg is right on this one. I had to repair my fuselage tank due to the structural adhesive simply disappearing. The shape of it was still there under the sealer but the adhesive was gone. The strange thing is I had used very little fuel with ethanol in it.
Larry
[quote] ---
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mparkhurst1(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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I agree with Greg also. I never knowingly used ethanol but structural adhesive just turned to powder around filler neck and outlet line.
Max
[quote] ---
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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Greg,
The tanks were put together with structural expoxy (Hysol) from the factory. We must be talking about different expoxies.
Barry
From: GREGSMI(at)aol.com
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Do not use structural adhesive on the fuel tank. The structural adhesive I tested dissolves in fuel with ethanol. Two things will happen, the adhesive in solution will get to your filters and carbs and could partially or fully block fuel flow. And, your tank will leak. None of that is good.
| Quote: | I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
cs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
onics.com
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cs.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[quote]
arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
[b]
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gregsmi
Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 262
Location: Topeka, KS
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Barry, I do not remember what structural adhesive I tested, just know the results. I would suggest you do some test on your adhesive to make sure. I do know that adhesive manufactures have changed over the years so could very well be a different product. Can you still buy Hysol?
In a message dated 7/5/2012 7:46:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, barrynorman(at)comcast.net writes:
| Quote: |
Greg,
The tanks were put together with structural expoxy (Hysol) from the factory. We must be talking about different expoxies.
Barry
From: GREGSMI(at)aol.com
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Do not use structural adhesive on the fuel tank. The structural adhesive I tested dissolves in fuel with ethanol. Two things will happen, the adhesive in solution will get to your filters and carbs and could partially or fully block fuel flow. And, your tank will leak. None of that is good.
| Quote: | I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
cs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
onics.com
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[quote][b]
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dougwitkowski(at)netscape
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:06 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Didn't we use structural epoxy on the header tanks to close out the firewall?? And to install the filler cap? Last time I looked (a few years ago), it was all still there. Anyone inspect their header tanks lately?
--
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Eddie Gose
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Greg:
There is a new and improved Hysol glue that replaces the old EA-9410-2 glue. EA-9430 has the same characteristics as the EA-9410, but has a 50 minute pot life instead of the 30 minute pot life of the EA-9410 at 77°F. Not sure about the fuel issue regarding it.
Eddie
From: owner-pulsar-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pulsar-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GREGSMI(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:15 PM
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Barry, I do not remember what structural adhesive I tested, just know the results. I would suggest you do some test on your adhesive to make sure. I do know that adhesive manufactures have changed over the years so could very well be a different product. Can you still buy Hysol?
In a message dated 7/5/2012 7:46:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, barrynorman(at)comcast.net (barrynorman(at)comcast.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Greg,
The tanks were put together with structural expoxy (Hysol) from the factory. We must be talking about different expoxies.
Barry
From: GREGSMI(at)aol.com (GREGSMI(at)aol.com)
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Do not use structural adhesive on the fuel tank. The structural adhesive I tested dissolves in fuel with ethanol. Two things will happen, the adhesive in solution will get to your filters and carbs and could partially or fully block fuel flow. And, your tank will leak. None of that is good.
| Quote: |
I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com (pilot623(at)gmail.com)>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net (barrynorman(at)comcast.net) wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dcs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Donics.com3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3Dcs.com/contribution3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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I believe the structural epoxy used on the earlier Pulsars were different from Hysol. They still sell Hysol and its supposed to be highly resistant to fuels (I just looked at the data sheet). It's exactly the same stuff supplied with the kit. Mine has been exposed to fuel with ethanol in it for years and I have never noticed any problems other than slight shrinkage at contact points but that's normal for epoxies as they cure. Never noticed anything abnormal in filters or while checking fuel. I was planning on coating it with tank sealer as a precaution. I'll do more research and let you know what I find out. Thanks for the info.
Barry
From: GREGSMI(at)aol.com
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 11:14:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Barry, I do not remember what structural adhesive I tested, just know the results. I would suggest you do some test on your adhesive to make sure. I do know that adhesive manufactures have changed over the years so could very well be a different product. Can you still buy Hysol?
In a message dated 7/5/2012 7:46:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, barrynorman(at)comcast.net writes:
| Quote: |
Greg,
The tanks were put together with structural expoxy (Hysol) from the factory. We must be talking about different expoxies.
Barry
From: GREGSMI(at)aol.com
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:59:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Do not use structural adhesive on the fuel tank. The structural adhesive I tested dissolves in fuel with ethanol. Two things will happen, the adhesive in solution will get to your filters and carbs and could partially or fully block fuel flow. And, your tank will leak. None of that is good.
| Quote: | I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D cs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D onics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D cs.com/contribution
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leubanks(at)sunflower.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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According to the builders manual for fuselage tanks it was wet micro for the closeout. I am pretty sure that was epoxy and microballoons. The structural adhesive was a 1 to 1 mix by volume and was used on the fuel valve area, the fill cap flange and where the vent went through the bottom of the tank. All of those went awol in my tank but the closeout seemed fine. There was some possible confusion too as the pictures just said micro or micro and glass but the written instructions say structural adhesive mixed with micro. Some builders may have used epoxy for this instead by mistake and may have had better luck in the long run.
The only reference I can find for a description or brand is 9922 structural adhesive. Hexcel still makes one like this and is sold by Aircraft Spruce.
Larry
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mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.n
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Yes I have inspected my header tank lately. It is a tank that has been a lot of grief until I got the right coating in place. Now I do not care what epoxy resin system was used to construct it as it is pointless with the right sealant in place. I am not going to tear the tank out and start over when the obvious solution is to use the correct sealant. I am approaching 300 hours on my 912 UL engine with almost 100% usage of 87 octane auto fuel and would not cosider changing...also like watching others sump their tanks for water!
Dave Weaver
--- On Fri, 7/6/12, dougwitkowski(at)netscape.net <dougwitkowski(at)netscape.net> wrote:
[quote]
From: dougwitkowski(at)netscape.net <dougwitkowski(at)netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 8:05 AM
Didn't we use structural epoxy on the header tanks to close out the firewall?? And to install the filler cap? Last time I looked (a few years ago), it was all still there. Anyone inspect their header tanks lately?
--
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barrynorman(at)comcast.ne
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:33 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Jim,
When you were doing this fix for the leaking tanks, did you consider moving the sump hole and the fuel pickup farther into the wing to give more clearance for a thicker fillet ?
Barry
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:18:51 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
I think you could use structural adhesive mixed with flox.
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D cs.com/Navigator?Pulsar-List
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leubanks(at)sunflower.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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Dave
I had over 800 hours and thought I was the one with the perfect sealant. It was this really good flexible Polysulfide sealant, Oh wait isn't that what you used too? Lets talk in another 500 hours.
Larry
[quote] ---
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pilot623(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: Tanks leaking |
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No, I routed out troughs in the fillet for the sump and pickup.
[quote] From: owner-pulsar-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pulsar-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of barrynorman(at)comcast.net
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 2:33 PM
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pulsar-List: Tanks leaking
Jim,
When you were doing this fix for the leaking tanks, did you consider moving the sump hole and the fuel pickup farther into the wing to give more clearance for a thicker fillet ?
Barry
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:18:51 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
I think you could use structural adhesive mixed with flox.
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
I can tell exactly what you did from the pictures. That was a great help. Do you think I could use structure adhesive mixed with flox instead of the epoxy? The structural adhesive is very strong and I have plenty of it.
From: "Jim Fillman" <pilot623(at)gmail.com>
To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:50:54 PM
Subject: Re: Tanks leaking
Barry,
I have lots of information to give about the fix described by Mark Brown after he saw the problem I had with my tanks. It would be easiest to give by phone so give me a ring anytime you like. 512.789.5463
Greg,
This topic might be worth 15 minutes at the fly-in.
Jim
Sent from my Android
barrynorman(at)comcast.net wrote:
Went out to the hanger yesterday to install new main tires and noticed both tanks had started leaking. One was leaking pretty bad and the other was noticeable. The ironic thing is the gas ran down the gear legs and puddled under the tires and ruined the tires that were already shot. Thank goodness it didn't happen after I put the new tires on.
Anyway, I thought this might be a result of the extreme temps we had over the weekend (107 plus and maybe 140+ in the hanger). I inderstand that most people replaced the sealant after about five years and it's been six for me. Does anyone know which sealant is best to use? I know AircraftSpruce sells a Polysulfide sealant in a 3.5 ounce tube. Are there any new products that work any better?
I haven't taken the wings off yet but was wondering if there are any other things I should look for in terms of what caused this leak other than sealant failure? It appears to be comming from the endcaps at this point.
Thanks,
Barry Norman
| Quote: |
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