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robert.hitchcock(at)virgi
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: Life rafts in the Europa |
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Hi Gentlemen
Must be getting more safety conscious as I get older, having crossed the channel dozens of times every which way, without life raft, only now am Iconsidering one.
Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part of the standard aircraft kit? Now there are new super light, life rafts available, weighing in at only 6Kilos e.g. Revere. Whereas the more traditional weigh in at 12 to 15 kilo. This light weight raft option still allows me to take full fuel and two suitcases
Am tempted at 6 kilo to be out of the water in life jacket and with PLB.
Regards
Bob
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: Life rafts in the Europa |
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Bob, As you know I have flown overa lot of water and until
family circumstances prevented it was thinking of flying
to Oz so have given this a fair bit of thought. I own a
liferaft and take one on long crossings when the water is
cold only. Would not bother just going across the Channel
in summer. There are two publications due out (one in the
upcoming GASCO mag & the other in the upcoming Europa
Flyer) which are based on a new study of the actual
ditching statistics in the UK for last 3 decades) which
show that the risks are nothing like the 'Experts' would
have you believe - in fact if you take the trouble to wear
a life jacket and carry a PLB there is only a 5% mortality
risk. If you further take the trouble to fly the plane
down to the water (rather trhan losing control & crashing)
and avoid flying in a PA28 then there are no deaths
attributable to ditching in UK aircraft in the last 28
years. You will have to wait for those publications but in
the meantime I recommend the artcle byBertorelli at:
www.equippedtosurvive.com/ditchingmyths.htm Regards,
David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:34:07 +0100
Bob Hitchcock <robert.hitchcock(at)virgin.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
<robert.hitchcock(at)virgin.net>
Hi Gentlemen
Must be getting more safety conscious as I get older,
having crossed the channel dozens of times every which
way, without life raft, only now am Iconsidering one.
Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part
of the standard aircraft kit? Now there are new super
light, life rafts available, weighing in at only 6Kilos
e.g. Revere. Whereas the more traditional weigh in at 12
to 15 kilo. This light weight raft option still allows me
to take full fuel and two suitcases
Am tempted at 6 kilo to be out of the water in life
jacket and with PLB.
Regards
Bob
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:26 am Post subject: Life rafts in the Europa |
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On 07/04/2012 10:34 PM, Bob Hitchcock wrote:
| Quote: | Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part of the
standard aircraft kit?
|
Ilona and I regularly fly long legs over water. This year we crossed the
Skagerak to Norway, we went to Corsica via the French coast (one hour
over water), went from there to Italy and then to Croatia (also one hour
flight over water). So we have our share with flying over water.
We own a life raft... but we didn't take it with us on these trips...
Our experience is that it is impossible to take the life raft in front
of the bagage area during flight (and the actual ditching). There is
just not enough room to stow it or even hold it on the co-pilots lap
without obstructing the control column.
This implies you have to take it in the bagage area and tightly secure
it there so it stays there during the deacceleration associated with
ditching (you don't want to spoil a succesful ditching with a life raft
knocking you unconscious from behind).
Then there are two possible outcomes (not counting a total failure): the
airplane flips over or is badly damaged and sinks to the bottom. In that
case the chances to get the life raft out of the bagage area are slim.
The other outcome is that the airplane survives the ditching, stays
upright, and remains floating. In that case do you really need a life
raft? The tail or wings are probably more comfortable to await rescue,
and an airplane is easier to locate so it is a good idea to stay close
to it anyway.
Of course we have life jackets, and a PLB. We stay in contact with ATC
all the time, announce our route in the flight plan, and preferably fly
as high as possible (usually at 10.000 ft) when crossing the water so
even if the engine totally quits we still have an endurance of 20
minutes, long enough to have the rescue team already on its way or even
awaiting at the scene before we actually get into the water. (Not to
mention the possibility to just glide to the coast; from 10.000 ft you
have quite an interesting gliding range).
For just crossing the canal I wouldn't bother at all. If you fly high
enough you can make it to one of the shores from almost any point, and
there are so many boats that it should always be possible to land near a
vessel. They can either fish you out of the water or direct the coast
guard to your exact position. You are probably rescued before you even
have the chance to get into your life raft.
Oh, and I have heard that the small life rafts are almost impossible to
board, especially with clothes on, or when the water is cold (not to
mention possible injuries). You might need to practise in a swimming
pool to check how to get in and whether you are actually even capable to
do so. In cold water your strenght is gone in a minute or so, so if you
don't board fast you can forget about the life raft and use it only as a
beacon.
I'm actually considering selling the life raft.
Frans
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:56 am Post subject: Life rafts in the Europa |
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Frans, a thoughtful reply as always, but I would take
issue with you on a couple of points. Firstly my liferaft
sits nicely on my side immediately behind the pilot's
headrest where it is no more likely to hit me on the head
than any of the other luggage and I do not feel it
necessary to tie it down. Secondly planes sink for the
most part with the Europa Classic being an honourable
exception. PA 28s have been timed at sinking in between 2
and 3 minutes. I hope an XS would float longer but doubt
very much that it would last more than prerhaps 10 or 15
mins.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:20:44 +0200
Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl> wrote:
| Quote: |
<frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
On 07/04/2012 10:34 PM, Bob Hitchcock wrote:
> Just a quick poll. Does anyone take a life raft as part
>of the
> standard aircraft kit?
Ilona and I regularly fly long legs over water. This
year we crossed the
Skagerak to Norway, we went to Corsica via the French
coast (one hour
over water), went from there to Italy and then to
Croatia (also one hour
flight over water). So we have our share with flying
over water.
We own a life raft... but we didn't take it with us on
these trips...
Our experience is that it is impossible to take the life
raft in front
of the bagage area during flight (and the actual
ditching). There is
just not enough room to stow it or even hold it on the
co-pilots lap
without obstructing the control column.
This implies you have to take it in the bagage area and
tightly secure
it there so it stays there during the deacceleration
associated with
ditching (you don't want to spoil a succesful ditching
with a life raft
knocking you unconscious from behind).
Then there are two possible outcomes (not counting a
total failure): the
airplane flips over or is badly damaged and sinks to the
bottom. In that
case the chances to get the life raft out of the bagage
area are slim.
The other outcome is that the airplane survives the
ditching, stays
upright, and remains floating. In that case do you
really need a life
raft? The tail or wings are probably more comfortable to
await rescue,
and an airplane is easier to locate so it is a good idea
to stay close
to it anyway.
Of course we have life jackets, and a PLB. We stay in
contact with ATC
all the time, announce our route in the flight plan, and
preferably fly
as high as possible (usually at 10.000 ft) when crossing
the water so
even if the engine totally quits we still have an
endurance of 20
minutes, long enough to have the rescue team already on
its way or even
awaiting at the scene before we actually get into the
water. (Not to
mention the possibility to just glide to the coast; from
10.000 ft you
have quite an interesting gliding range).
For just crossing the canal I wouldn't bother at all. If
you fly high
enough you can make it to one of the shores from almost
any point, and
there are so many boats that it should always be
possible to land near a
vessel. They can either fish you out of the water or
direct the coast
guard to your exact position. You are probably rescued
before you even
have the chance to get into your life raft.
Oh, and I have heard that the small life rafts are
almost impossible to
board, especially with clothes on, or when the water is
cold (not to
mention possible injuries). You might need to practise
in a swimming
pool to check how to get in and whether you are actually
even capable to
do so. In cold water your strenght is gone in a minute
or so, so if you
don't board fast you can forget about the life raft and
use it only as a
beacon.
I'm actually considering selling the life raft.
Frans
Un/Subscription,
Forums!
Admin.
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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robert.hitchcock(at)virgi
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: Life rafts in the Europa |
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| Quote: | Hi David, Hi Frans
|
Good information. Read the article. Have delayed my purchase, perhaps indefinitely. Thanks. Regards Bob
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rogersheridan(at)gmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: Life rafts in the Europa |
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These people will rent you a small life raft which I'm using in a 4 seat Jodel, it would be small enough to use in the Europa, possibly as a seat base.
http://www.aerosafe.co.uk/
On 5 Jul 2012, at 23:09, Bob Hitchcock wrote:
| Quote: |
> Hi David, Hi Frans
Good information. Read the article. Have delayed my purchase, perhaps indefinitely. Thanks. Regards Bob
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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graeme bird
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Life rafts in the Europa |
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Interesting thread. I read the myths debunk recently.
Being a sailor and having capsized at sea a good few times and noted how hard it is to get back into the boat after the shock and cold I have just brought dry/immersion suits (£300 each) which I may also use for sailing and kayaking. They are breathable but may be just too hot and uncomfortable.
So life jacket, drysuit, PLB, & VHF radio.bv
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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