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Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

Folks,



I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump.  I thought I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.



For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten the fittings?  With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as well as the shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench in there.  Is there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to make a special tool?



Thanks,

Ralph

RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6

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BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

Hello Ralph:



The cooling shroud is a nice-a-ty but not really required.  Do you have fire-sleeve on all the fuel lines?  That is all that is required.  I have the same setup and have never had vapor lock; if that was your reason for the shroud.

 



As for tightening .. That is an issue.  I'm guessing here - But, do you have STEEL fittings going into the pump?

The basic rule is steel fitting for certified aircraft - But, I'm not making the rules & regs the issue.  It could be the problem.  The problem is the steel fittings can be tightened way more than necessary without showing/needing any great forces.  They almost cut their own threads; driving the fitting in way more than required.  So, why is that a problem?  Because the body of the fuel pump is much softer than the fitting and if the fitting is over tightened you could crack the pump case.

 Now, try this - This is to insure the quality of the threads on the fitting and will also verify if there are any cracks in the pump body:

Start by cursing -

Then remove the fitting

Wire brush by hand the fitting

 Run your finger around the inside of the pump threads - You are looking for roughness of burs.

If none found you many be lucky.

NOW - This you must do EXACTLY as described.  You are going to put TEFLON tape on the fitting BUT!

 START the Teflon tape THREE (3) threads BACK from the START END of the fitting.

Put on three (3) layers - PULL the tape tight so it stretches.

YES - I know Teflon tape is frowned against - For two reasons:

 1 - People put it all the way to the end of the fitting and pieces get cut off and can clog the fuel / oil systems.

2 - It reduces the friction on the fitting and leads to over tightening of the fitting. 

 HOW TO PUT ON TEFLON TAPE

Hold the fitting in your left hand with the start end facing to the right.

Start at the top of the fitting (On The Left)

Pull the tape and stretch it.

 Wrap it AWAY FROM YOU <-- Failure to do so will lead to more cursing.

Wrap it - But stay three (3) threads away from the start end.

Finish the wrapping with the tape end going UP the thread toward the top (your left)

 



Tightening - As mentioned CAUTION!  Do not over tighten.  The Teflon will seal the leaks.

IF you still have a leak you could have a cracked fuel pump body.  This I truly hope not.



Oh, there is an approved pipe dope compound for certified aircraft but I do not recall the name.  

 



TOOL WISE - I can't see your setup or what tool you are using - But, don't be afraid to MAKE your own tool by grinding a wrench to fit the area - Or heating and bending a wrench to fit the area.  

 You may want to start with a FLARE WRENCH and work from there.





Barry



On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net (recapen(at)earthlink.net)>

  

 Folks,

 

 I have the cooling shroud sold by Aircraft Spruce over my fuel pump.  I thought I had the fittings tightened well - but still have a leak.

 

 For those of you that have a similar configuration, how did you tighten the fittings?  With all of the other stuff back there (prop governor) as well as the shroud covering the access it is very difficult to get a wrench in there.  Is there a special tool - or did someone grind down something to make a special tool?

  

 Thanks,

 Ralph

 RV6A N822AR IO360B1F6

 

 

 

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tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:15 am Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and try again, don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a very small amount of oil on the o ring.

Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you in there.

If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube instead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in mind keep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the fuel system and cause a blockage.  

Tim

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BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

Good points Tim:



Ralph did inform me that they are indeed O ring sealed fittings.

So getting a high torque is NOT required.  The O ring should be making the seal and the threads would be a straight thread not a NPT.

 



Barry



On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:12 AM, Tim Andres <tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 [quote]Aren't those O ring fittings? If so you need to replace the o rings and try again, don't use Teflon tape, paste or anything else except maybe a very small amount of oil on the o ring.

 Also an offset (15/45) open end wrench might get you in there.

If they are NPT threads, Barry's advice may work, but I'd try fuel lube instead. Either product will not dissolve in fuel so with that thought in mind keep it off the end of the fitting where it might be able to enter the fuel system and cause a blockage.  

 Tim

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


	


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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

Hi guys,

  

 Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump  fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8.  I have not yet tightened  them up, as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do.  They have the  O ring type fittings that Ralph described.  As I understand, the idea is  that  you can position the right angle into the correct location and then  tighten down the locking nut to get the seal.

  

 Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this?  Do I tighten down the  fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the  appropriate tightness?  Is there a torque specification for the locking  nut?

  

 My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Finishing 

 San Ramon, CA

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Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:17 am Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

It should thread most of the way in but you don't tighten it. If you look at it you will see the o ring "boss" or counter bore on the fitting and a corresponding counter bore on the pump. The boss on the fitting should be proximate to the boss on the pump, in other words you don't want the o ring forced onto the threaded portion of the fitting. 

 I imagine there is a proper torque spec on it, and you would need a crow-foot and a calculator to use it.  Just cinch it down without getting carried away. I may be necessary to hold the fitting from turning while you tighten the nut, which would likely cut the o ring bringing you full circle to where you started....

No sealer used on these except a little oil on the o ring may protect it while you install it.

Also, you want to back up these fittings with a wrench when tightening the hose fittings. The pump body is aluminum...and expensive.

Tim



Sent from my iPad



On Nov 28, 2012, at 9:13 AM, MLWynn(at)AOL.COM (MLWynn(at)AOL.COM) wrote:

[quote]     Hi guys,

  

 Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump  fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8.  I have not yet tightened  them up, as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do.  They have the  O ring type fittings that Ralph described.  As I understand, the idea is  that  you can position the right angle into the correct location and then  tighten down the locking nut to get the seal.

  

 Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this?  Do I tighten down the  fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the  appropriate tightness?  Is there a torque specification for the locking  nut?

  

 My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling shroud.

  

 Regards,

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Finishing 

 San Ramon, CA

  	  Quote: 	
		  



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Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: Fuel pump fittings with cooling shroud attached

This was very helpful.  Thank you.

  

 Michael Wynn

 RV 8 Finishing

 San Ramon, CA

  

  In a message dated 11/28/2012 11:44:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     It should thread most of the way in but you don't tighten it. If you look    at it you will see the o ring "boss" or counter bore on the fitting and a    corresponding counter bore on the pump. The boss on the fitting should be    proximate to the boss on the pump, in other words you don't want the o ring    forced onto the threaded portion of the fitting. 

    I imagine there is a proper torque spec on it, and you would need a    crow-foot and a calculator to use it.  Just cinch it down without getting    carried away. I may be necessary to hold the fitting from turning while you    tighten the nut, which would likely cut the o ring bringing you full circle to    where you started....

   No sealer used on these except a little oil on the o ring may protect it    while you install it.

   Also, you want to back up these fittings with a wrench when tightening    the hose fittings. The pump body is aluminum...and expensive.

   Tim



Sent from my iPad

   

On Nov 28, 2012, at 9:13 AM, MLWynn(at)AOL.COM (MLWynn(at)AOL.COM) wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		                 Hi guys,

      

     Not to hijack the thread, but I have loosely installed the fuel pump      fittings on my IO360 M1B, going into an RV 8.  I have not yet tightened      them up, as I am a little foggy on what exactly I should do.  They have      the O ring type fittings that Ralph described.  As I understand, the      idea is that  you can position the right angle into the correct      location and then tighten down the locking nut to get the seal.

      

     Do I need any sort of thread sealer on this?  Do I tighten down      the fitting pretty well before the lock nut comes down or is just snug the      appropriate tightness?  Is there a torque specification for the locking      nut?

      

     My hoses are all firesleeved and I didn't install a cooling      shroud.

      

     Regards,

      

     Michael Wynn

     RV 8 Finishing 

     San Ramon, CA

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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matronics.com/contribution

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tp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com

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Michael Wynn
RV 8
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