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snaproll(at)whidbey.com
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
[quote][b]
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n355tc(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:53 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
| Quote: |
===================================
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
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[b]
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snaproll(at)whidbey.com
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley | Quote: | | ===================================ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List===================================cs.com===================================matronics.com/contribution=================================== |
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[quote][b]
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robin02(at)mindspring.com
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:22 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream….about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
| | - The Matronics Glasair-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List |
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n355tc(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Bob,
They are o box that replaces the entire vent system. They mount at the wing tips inside the tip on the rib which closes out the fuel tank. It will likely take you a weekend or two to install them and you will have to be very carefully about debris in the tank from drilling through but it will solve the problem. I wish they had designed something similar for the glastar. I had a glasair 1ft that was built by another builder and it was like yours. Vented overboard all the time. My star does the same thing with four separate tanks! I don't fill them to the top and on the ground I turn slowly not to sling it overboard. My glasair 3 has the fuel float valves installed and I look forward to flying it without that problem when it's finished.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 7:19 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley | Quote: | | ===================================ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List===================================cs.com===================================matronics.com/contribution=================================== |
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[b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List |
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snaproll(at)whidbey.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:02 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Thanks so much for your time Todd…
Gives me some confidence that this can be accomplished. It is so frustrating working around the plugs on the vents…fast taxis on long CC while it flows out. I’ll call Glasair on Monday. Have not spoken with any of them though since the change of owners.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:26 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob,
They are o box that replaces the entire vent system. They mount at the wing tips inside the tip on the rib which closes out the fuel tank. It will likely take you a weekend or two to install them and you will have to be very carefully about debris in the tank from drilling through but it will solve the problem. I wish they had designed something similar for the glastar. I had a glasair 1ft that was built by another builder and it was like yours. Vented overboard all the time. My star does the same thing with four separate tanks! I don't fill them to the top and on the ground I turn slowly not to sling it overboard. My glasair 3 has the fuel float valves installed and I look forward to flying it without that problem when it's finished.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 7:19 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley | Quote: | | ===================================ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List===================================cs.com===================================matronics.com/contribution=================================== |
|
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[quote][b]
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snaproll(at)whidbey.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:13 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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|
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski…that’s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I digress…my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without issue…and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream….about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
012345678901234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Glasair-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List |
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robin02(at)mindspring.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:31 am Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don’t have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski…that’s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I digress…my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without issue…and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream….about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair’s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing…but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet…but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip…I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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snaproll(at)whidbey.com
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:04 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Robin…
Hi there…that was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and may have met you. Dad is still flying airshows…solo and dual act with my little brother Ross… and I have been in love with this plane since we met Tom at the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I really enjoyed being around Bob G’s and we flew the plane a lot. Dad did a lot for their business early on as he really believed in the airplane and the guys. Military and other life challenges prevented me from getting one sooner. Still learning A LOT about the airplane this past year.
I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I will head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance. I am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib.
Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don’t have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski…that’s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I digress…my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without issue…and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream….about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
012345678901234567
[quote][b]
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bwbeaird(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:22 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Bob,
I built and fly Glasair RG kit #1032. The wing is the short Glasair I like
yours. 34 gallon main tank. As you guys have been saying, the end rib of my
main tank is just outboard of the fill caps (probably about 4 feet from
tip). I agree that your rib near the wingtip is probably not part of the
fuel tank.
fyi, I did two things to prevent the main tank vents from spilling or
cyphoning. Installed both fixes at the same time and they are kind of belt
& suspenders, so I'm not sure which one solved the problem. But I can say I
have no spilling or cyphoning problems now.
(1) I have the standard Glasair I internal vent lines that run down the
inside of the tank, into the fuselage, then back over the wing and
overboard (down) behind the wing at the fuselage center line. To prevent
these lines from cyphoning, I added a vertical 'riser' loop to each of
them. The risers are located between the header tank and the instrument
panel (ie just forward of the instru panel)...Theory is fuel does not rise
up and over this 'gooseneck' so cyphoning never starts.(altho maybe some
serious aerobatics might allow it to start...but I dont do aerobatics). I
can post a diagram of this arrangement if you want.
(2) I also retrofitted Glasair's float valves at the wingtips. They work
great and I highly recommend them. I actually installed a fuel fill cap
just inboard of each end rib, to provide access to the inside of the end
rib while installing the 3/8" tubing from the vent valves, thru the end
rib. It was tedious job but doable.
Hope that helps. Let me know if questions.
Brian Beaird
Glasair N240DB I.5* RG
*I call it a 1.5 because I have Glasair I wing & stab + Glasair II Fuselage
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deej(at)deej.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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On 2/23/2013 8:25 PM, Todd Copeland wrote:
| Quote: | My star does the same thing with four separate tanks! I don't fill them to the top and on the ground I turn slowly not to sling it overboard.
|
   There is a simple mod for the Glastar that stops about 90% of the problem. I did it to mine and it does help drastically. I think it took a half an hour or so per wing.
   Buy a T connector. Hook the vent line from the main tank into one side of the T, and have the other side of the T go straight into the Aux tank. Turn the base of the T so that it points upwards (as much as you can without hitting the wingtip). Make the vent line go up from the base of the T, then curve back down and go out the bottom of the wingtip in place of the aux vent hole in the wingtip.
   When the main tank is full and you make a turn, the fuel rushes up the vent line, but just gets dumped into the aux tank. If both main and aux tanks are full, you will still get some spill, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as it was prior to making this mod. Most of the time my aux tanks are empty anyways for local flights.
   I also bought "Fuel Vent, Aluminum Retrofit" Part number 933-05000-01 from Glasair Aviation which essentially replaces the last few inches of vent line with a piece of aluminum tubing. One kit does two vents. I think the kit was $10 or $15. It allows you to better adjust the vent on each wing to balance out the fuel usage if you have a "both" setting on your fuel selector. It also looks nicer than the plastic line sticking out the bottom of the wingtip... 
-Dj
[quote]--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
[b]
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snaproll(at)whidbey.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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Hi Brian,
I have been reading the list daily since I bought the plane and I should have reached out earlier. Great ideas and solutions. Thanks Brian. My job this week when not working is to sit down with the manual and visualize how each of these suggestions can work for me. Will discuss with my A& E friends as well. I do not have the header tank install and would love to see your diagram. I am very mechanical and have spent a lot of time figuring out someone else’s build…but still little hesitant when it comes to the fiberglass mods etc. I do have a good pool of friends nearby though that can help with this.
Thanks for taking the time Brian and I will be in touch again if you don’t mind.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Beaird
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob,
I built and fly Glasair RG kit #1032. The wing is the short Glasair I like yours. 34 gallon main tank. As you guys have been saying, the end rib of my main tank is just outboard of the fill caps (probably about 4 feet from tip). I agree that your rib near the wingtip is probably not part of the fuel tank.
fyi, I did two things to prevent the main tank vents from spilling or cyphoning. Installed both fixes at the same time and they are kind of belt & suspenders, so I'm not sure which one solved the problem. But I can say I have no spilling or cyphoning problems now.
(1) I have the standard Glasair I internal vent lines that run down the inside of the tank, into the fuselage, then back over the wing and overboard (down) behind the wing at the fuselage center line. To prevent these lines from cyphoning, I added a vertical 'riser' loop to each of them. The risers are located between the header tank and the instrument panel (ie just forward of the instru panel)...Theory is fuel does not rise up and over this 'gooseneck' so cyphoning never starts.(altho maybe some serious aerobatics might allow it to start...but I dont do aerobatics). I can post a diagram of this arrangement if you want.
(2) I also retrofitted Glasair's float valves at the wingtips. They work great and I highly recommend them. I actually installed a fuel fill cap just inboard of each end rib, to provide access to the inside of the end rib while installing the 3/8" tubing from the vent valves, thru the end rib. It was tedious job but doable.
Hope that helps. Let me know if questions.
Brian Beaird
Glasair N240DB I.5* RG
*I call it a 1.5 because I have Glasair I wing & stab + Glasair II Fuselage.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bob Granley <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote: | Quote: |
Robin…
Hi there…that was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and may have met you. Dad is still flying airshows…solo and dual act with my little brother Ross… and I have been in love with this plane since we met Tom at the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I really enjoyed being around Bob G’s and we flew the plane a lot. Dad did a lot for their business early on as he really believed in the airplane and the guys. Military and other life challenges prevented me from getting one sooner. Still learning A LOT about the airplane this past year.
I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I will head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance. I am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib.
Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don’t have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski…that’s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I digress…my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without issue…and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream….about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
012345
678901
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234567890123456789
[quote][b]
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bwbeaird(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
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No problem Bob. I have not been real active on the list until recently but happy to help if i can. lots of builders have help me same way over the years. i have all the construction manuals i used to build from and remember most (?) of what things look like 'under the hood' so contact me any time. Meanwhile I will find and send you that diagram.
Brian
On Feb 24, 2013, at 6:12 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
[quote]v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hi Brian,
I have been reading the list daily since I bought the plane and I should have reached out earlier. Great ideas and solutions. Thanks Brian. My job this week when not working is to sit down with the manual and visualize how each of these suggestions can work for me. Will discuss with my A& E friends as well. I do not have the header tank install and would love to see your diagram. I am very mechanical and have spent a lot of time figuring out someone else’s build…but still little hesitant when it comes to the fiberglass mods etc. I do have a good pool of friends nearby though that can help with this.
Thanks for taking the time Brian and I will be in touch again if you don’t mind.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Brian Beaird
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob,
I built and fly Glasair RG kit #1032. The wing is the short Glasair I like yours. 34 gallon main tank. As you guys have been saying, the end rib of my main tank is just outboard of the fill caps (probably about 4 feet from tip). I agree that your rib near the wingtip is probably not part of the fuel tank.
fyi, I did two things to prevent the main tank vents from spilling or cyphoning. Installed both fixes at the same time and they are kind of belt & suspenders, so I'm not sure which one solved the problem. But I can say I have no spilling or cyphoning problems now.
(1) I have the standard Glasair I internal vent lines that run down the inside of the tank, into the fuselage, then back over the wing and overboard (down) behind the wing at the fuselage center line. To prevent these lines from cyphoning, I added a vertical 'riser' loop to each of them. The risers are located between the header tank and the instrument panel (ie just forward of the instru panel)...Theory is fuel does not rise up and over this 'gooseneck' so cyphoning never starts.(altho maybe some serious aerobatics might allow it to start...but I dont do aerobatics). I can post a diagram of this arrangement if you want.
(2) I also retrofitted Glasair's float valves at the wingtips. They work great and I highly recommend them. I actually installed a fuel fill cap just inboard of each end rib, to provide access to the inside of the end rib while installing the 3/8" tubing from the vent valves, thru the end rib. It was tedious job but doable.
Hope that helps. Let me know if questions.
Brian Beaird
Glasair N240DB I.5* RG
*I call it a 1.5 because I have Glasair I wing & stab + Glasair II Fuselage.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bob Granley <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote: | Quote: |
Robin…
Hi there…that was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and may have met you. Dad is still flying airshows…solo and dual act with my little brother Ross… and I have been in love with this plane since we met Tom at the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I really enjoyed being around Bob G’s and we flew the plane a lot. Dad did a lot for their business early on as he really believed in the airplane and the guys. Military and other life challenges prevented me from getting one sooner. Still learning A LOT about the airplane this past year.
I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I will head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance. I am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib.
Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don’t have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski…that’s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I digress…my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without issue…and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream….about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd…
So Harry at Glasair can help with this…I will call him. Can’t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-glasair-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com (glasair-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll(at)whidbey.com (snaproll(at)whidbey.com)> wrote:
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