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landing gear alignment

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lmorgan100(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:00 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

Hey everyone,  

I am going to be installing new gear legs on my Twinstar MK II soon.  

My question is do you align your tires to be perfectly straight or do you toe the front in a little ?  

thanks for any responses.  

Lee..  

       [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:15 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

I am going to be installing new gear legs on my Twinstar MK II soon.

My question is do you align your tires to be perfectly straight or do you

toe the front in a little ?

thanks for any responses.

Lee..

 



Lee/Kolbers:



I don't know what the Factory specs are, but I have always used a tiny bit

of toe-in on my Ultrastar, Firestar, and MKIII.  Sorry, I can't give you a

precise measurement.



If there is any toe-out, the gear legs will splay outwards, especially on

pavement.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:25 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

--

 Lee,

 You will probably get multiple choices here,but mine is for 0 with the weight off the gear. A little toe in will won't be noticeable on grass, but you WILL feel it on pavement if both wheels don't make contact at exactly the same time.If you have more than a little,It will get your attention when the plane makes a lurch toward the side that has not made contact yet.

 G.Aman  MK-3 C 800 hrs Jabiru 2200

   From: Lee <lmorgan100(at)charter.net>

  To: kolb-list <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

  Sent: Wed, Mar 27, 2013 9:00 am

  Subject: landing gear alignment

  

                 #AOLMsgPart_1_8ad6904e-1497-42b0-9546-2d272d031e66 td{color: black;}               Hey everyone,

      I am going to be installing new gear legs on my Twinstar MK II soon.

      My question is do you align your tires to be perfectly straight or do you toe the front in a little ?

      thanks for any responses.

      Lee..

    

          	  Quote: 	
		  



tor?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
 

       

   [quote][b]

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:19 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

It will depend on  what gear you install... and by that I am referring to the flex ability of the  gear.   on my mkiii   I have the solid tapered steel gear  that I got from kolb...   when first installed  I had a bit more  toe in than was desirable,  when I adjusted it I went to  straight,,,,,  bad mistake...  the rolling resistance would flex the  gear back till the wheels were toe out, the extra rolling resistance would flex  the gear back further   till the wheels would break free and jump  forward,, then start the process over again...  felt like I was riding a  jack hammer...  I cant remember the exact numbers off the top of my  head,,,  but it should be in the archives,,,  I ended up with just  enough toe in that the jack hammer went away,,,  it was about 1/2 of the  original figures.     the original figures were ok on dry  pavement or dirt....   but when I would hit a patch of ice on one  wheel and the other was on pavement, it would jump side wards...   



   



  the flexibility of  the gear will make a big difference in where you set the toe  in.



   



  check the  archives...that should give you some idea of what I did on the mkIII with steel  tapered gear,,,,  then adjust your numbers based on the flex ability of  your gear.



   



  boyd  young



   



  >>>>>>>>>>>>>



   



   



   



  Hey  everyone,

   [quote]         

I am going to be installing new    gear legs on my Twinstar MK II soon.   

My question is do you align your    tires to be perfectly straight or do you toe the front in a little    ?   

thanks for any    responses.   

Lee..

 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


 [b]

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:24 am Post subject: Re: landing gear alignment

This older post may help you to align your replacement gear legs.



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=83176&highlight=landing+alignment

_________________
Jerry King

Skel

Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:53 am Post subject: Re: landing gear alignment

I'm not sure if it would be the same for a Kolb...but for the Challenger the toe in is 1%.  The easy way to check this is to put a straight 2x4 in front of both tires and block it up so it sits at axle height.  Then take a square and place it alongside the wheel and measure the distance between the square and the front and back of the rim.  The front measurement should be 1/8" more than the back measurement.  See the following link 

http://home.epix.net/~jlartin/toein.html

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:48 am Post subject: Re: landing gear alignment

There is always a big controversy concerning “toe” setting on airplanes.  The toe setting has absolutely nothing to do with whatever you learned about setting toe-in on cars.  Generally on pavement, the airplane will go in the direction of the wheel with the most weight on it.  On grass, toe setting almost doesn’t matter at all.  In my mind, for a tail-wheel airplane (not a Challenger), I would strive for zero toe and camber; both set at normal flying weight (with pilot) and err on the toe-out side.  My reasoning is that a slight toe-out would tend to lift a low wing (heavy side).  The Challenger is a nose wheel type airplane with main gear located further aft and the above probably would not apply. 



Of course, I could be totally full of crap too!

_________________
Jerry King

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

Looks like a great way to do things! Thanks for the heads up .

Frank 

Do not archive 



From: Skel <mursall(at)yahoo.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Fri, March 29, 2013 6:54:06 AM

Subject: Re: landing gear alignment



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Skel" <mursall(at)yahoo.com (mursall(at)yahoo.com)>



I'm not sure if it would be the same for a Kolb...but for the Challenger the toe in is 1%.  The easy way to check this is to put a straight 2x4 in front of both tires and block it up so it sits at axle height.  Then take a square and place it alongside the wheel and measure the distance between the square and the front and back of the rim.  The front measurement should be 1/8" more than the back measurement.  See the following link 

http://home.epix.net/~jlartin/toein.html





Read this topic online here:

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

I would strive for zero toe and camber; both set at normal flying weight

(with pilot) and err on the toe-out side.  My reasoning is that a slight

toe-out would tend to lift a low wing (heavy side).  The Challenger is a

nose wheel type airplane with main gear located further aft and the above

probably would not apply. 



Of course, I could be totally full of crap too!



--------

Jerry King

 

Jerry K/Kolbers:



Toe out and pavement on a Kolb, any model, don't get along.  Causes splaying

of gear legs and scrubbing of the tires, not to mention problems trying to

second guess where the airplane is going.



I set up my MKIII to nearly zero toe in/toe out, leaning on a tad of toe in.

If you want a number, try 1/16".  Rolling forward, my gear remain nice and

straight.  Landing and taking off on pavement, my MKIII has no bad habits or

surprises.  Push the airplane backwards and the gear legs splay out.  They

also splay out when making a pivot turn either direction.



Kolb gear are flexible in 360 degrees.  They are not locked into place like

a car, truck, tractor.



After 3,200+ hours on my MKIII, no tire problems.  This last pair of 8.00 X

6 Airtracs probably have 1,500 to 2,000 hours on them, guessing without

looking in the log book.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:00 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

I did some work a while back on a spread sheet and did some what if's.

by putting a straight board, or I used a steel angle supported  with

sections of 2x8 to hold it at the correct height. and held against the

back of both tires.  then used a carpenters square to hold against the

straight angle and the side of the wheel.   this was done with

both wheels sitting on grease plates so they could move and rotate

freely.  the grease plates are made by putting a layer of grease between

2 layers of aluminum,,  or in my case I used some 1/8 inch floor tiles.

I measured the distance from the edge of the square to the

front of the rim and back of the rim.  if the tire keeps the square from

touching the rim,,  measure the front and back and use the difference.

my difference was 0.052 inches



the tangent of an angle equals the measurement of the opposite side

of a right triangle divided by the adjacent side.  but knowing the

opposite and adjacent sides, we can use the inverse tangent function

to find the angle.    the inverse tangent function  =

the ratio   .052/5.725  or     TAN-1 power    is .52 deg    Toe In.

ok   before the math wiz kids flame in,  I said I measured the rim,,,

well I measured the rim at a point  equal distances from the

edge of the rim so the measurements  points were 5.725 inches

from each other.    using the spread sheet, I found a nice relationship

between measurements 5.725 from each other and the solution to the

problem.   that relation ship was the angle in degrees was ten times

the difference measured in thousandths of an inch.

so a difference of .052  equals .52 deg.   and again from the

spread sheet,  if you measure the 6 inch rim,  the difference

in the degree of angle was negligible compaired the the 5.725.

  I should also note that this relationship only survives

if the angle is small.



so plugged into my spread sheet,,, your 1/8 th of an inch or

0.125  times 10  equals 1.25 deg toe in.   the picture in your link below

was identical to what I did, but I put the strait edge on the back

instead of the front of the tire. that is a very good picture

and explanation.



on my mark iii  I have the solid tapered steel legs purchased

from kolb.  the sweet spot for my plane was 1.22 deg toe in total..

  half of that, or there about, on each wheel...  0.52 on the left

and 0.7 on the right.

boyd young mkiii

utah



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm not sure if it would be the same for a Kolb...but for the Challenger the 
	


toe in is 1%.  The easy way to check this is to put a straight 2x4 in front 

of both tires and block it up so it sits at axle height.  Then take a square 

and place it alongside the wheel and measure the distance between the square 

and the front and back of the rim.  The front measurement should be 1/8" 

more than the back measurement.  See the following link

http://home.epix.net/~jlartin/toein.html

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: landing gear alignment

From: "Lee" <lmorgan100(at)charter.net>

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:00:11 -0400



 	  Quote: 	
		  >

My question is do you align your tires to be perfectly straight or do you 
	


toe the front in a little ?

 	  Quote: 	
		  >


	


Lee,



Set the gear at zero toe in with your plane with what you consider your 

plane average or normal flight load.



Roll the plane forward to let the gear settle and adjust camber so that the 

top of the wheel tips out a little at the top. 



If you make these adjustments you should have no trouble landing in a side 

slip during gusty cross winds on a hard surface runway.  



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:56 am Post subject: Re: landing gear alignment

TOE SETTING ON TAILWHEEL AIRCRAFT – ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW



http://www.biplaneforum.com/uploads/20111027_130115_200901_EAA_CHAP.pdf

_________________
Jerry King

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:39 am Post subject: Re: landing gear alignment

Both my Firestar and Kolbra have toe in on the landing gear. They don't have any problems on a hard-surface runway. That can be seen in my last video (a few posts ago) with a landing at Shell Lake Wisconsin. Even with a slight toe in configuration, once the pilot is in the aircraft, the camber and toe in changes to neutral. Once out of the aircraft and pushed backwards, the camber changes negatively and looks like it is spread out. If the aircraft is parked at a fly-in or in the hanger try this: With your back to the cockpit and knees bent, try lifting underneath with both hands. You will see the gear leg on that side spring back to positive camber and toe in configuration. I usually do this at a fly-in so that my gear doesn't look like I've spread them out.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

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