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601 NR#4 Problems

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Crvsecretary(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

Hello Listers:

  

 I'm building the right wing of my 601XL using the 15 gal. fuel tanks and  wing spars made for 12 gal. tanks.  I never read in the prints or photo  guide the instruction to cut the bracket for NR#4 so I drilled out the rivets  and removed the bracket.

  

 What kind of trouble did I get myself into?  Am I screwed?

  

 I appreciate all responses.

  

 As always, thank you.

  

 Tracy Smith

 Naugatuck, CT

 601XL N458XL (reserved)



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: Re: 601 NR#4 Problems

You're screwed......just kidding, I couldn't resist.   If you haven't closed the LE up yet I would suggest filling the hole if possible.   A driven rivet would be best but I think a bolt or machine screw would suffice....You might add a little stiffener while you are at it but I don't think it matters.



I'm sure one of the more experienced guys on the group will give you other suggestions as well.

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

Tracy, 

   If I were you,  I'd go straight to Zenith with this question---- Fritz

  do not archive



Crvsecretary(at)aol.com wrote:

  [quote]    Hello Listers:

   

  I'm building the right wing of my 601XL using the 15 gal. fuel tanks and wing spars made for 12 gal. tanks.  I never read in the prints or photo guide the instruction to cut the bracket for NR#4 so I drilled out the rivets and removed the bracket.

   

  What kind of trouble did I get myself into?  Am I screwed?

   

  I appreciate all responses.

   

  As always, thank you.

   

  Tracy Smith

  Naugatuck,  TV dinner still cooling?

[url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49979/*http://tv.yahoo.com/]Check out "Tonight's Picks"[/url] on Yahoo! TV. [quote][b]

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

Your not screwed, Install rivets back in place of the ones you removed. Same type in same hole. The caution is that a rivet that is drilled out is not replaced, this is not acceptable. You must not leave a hole that is not filled.  

     

Mark Townsend  

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.  

president(at)can-zacaviation.com (president(at)can-zacaviation.com)  

www.can-zacaviation.com   

  

   

--

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

As long as you have already drilled out the rivets, check to see if you can  re-install the angle of the aft side of the spar. Do you have access to a  pneumatic riveter or a squeezer with the correct inserts? If not wait until you  have that done before blocking your access to both sides of the spar at that  point. Even if you just set rivets back in the holes you  will be fine. You'll make actual mistakes later on.... save the sweat for those  episodes.

  

 Dred

 [quote]   ---

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: 601 NR#4 Problems

Gee whiz! I'm looking at that big  95mm lightening hole in my spar web and am wondering how a tiny little rivet hole is going to create a problem. But then again, I would listen to Mark Townsend. He certainly is more knowledgeable than most of us amateurs on this forum. 



do not archive



Dave Clay

601XL scratch builder

Temple, TX

http://www.daves601xl.com

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

Mark and Jon are experts through the school of hard knocks. They've made 

just as many mistakes as we have, and even show them on their DVDs. (Along 

with ways to minimize the loss). Very refreshing. Listen to the voice of 

experience!

Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuse/Corvair

Townville, Pa

---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

I may be losing it but I don't recall a lightening  hole in the spar web. You don't perhaps mean the wingtip spar  extension?

  

 Dred

 [quote]   ---

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: 601 NR#4 Problems

Hey Dred,

There's a 95mm flanged lightening hole in the outboard end of the spar web. There is another in the tip extension. Page 6-W-3. Mark set me straight on the need to address an unfilled rivet hole in the spar web. Like I told him, this airplane building business is a continual learning process. Aren't we fortunate to have this forum?



do not archive



Dave Clay

Temple, TX

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

I had forgotten about the other hole in the spar. I  still can't "see it" in my mind's eye. I'll check that page of the drawings just  to get my mind right. Do you have a rivet gun or someone close by who does?  I think the mania for not leaving holes can be exaggerated at times but in the  spar, I try to walk the line. In a low stress area, an unfilled hole is a  lightening hole as long as there is adequate edge distance. When I have a  useless hole drilled where I don't need it, I just pull a rivet in it or dimple  it and set a solid countersunk one if something has to sit flush on it. That  happened on the baggage deck because I didn't think far enough ahead of what I  was doing.

  

 This list bailed me out when Tom Henderson offered  to cut and bend me 12 extra standard L-angles for $2 apiece. I had run out due  to waste and extra use where the plans did not demand it. Zenith wanted over $7  each for them despite the material costing less than $1.70 each. I sent Tom $35  to make sure he didn't come out behind on the shipping.

  

 Dred

 [quote]   ---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

when you talk to Zenith, make sure that you ask to speak to an engineer. Ask him if you could use a CherryMax of the appropriate size (assuming they make them that long). Somewhere in my past I recall that CherryMax rivets are considerd a structural equivalent to AD driven rivets - I do not know if that is a figment of my imagination or not! 



Edward Moody II <dredmoody(at)cox.net> wrote:  [quote]        As long as you have already drilled out the rivets, check to see if you can re-install the angle of the aft side of the spar. Do you have access to a pneumatic riveter or a squeezer with the correct inserts? If not wait until you have that done before blocking your access to both sides of the spar at that point. Even if you just set rivets back in the holes you will  be fine. You'll make actual mistakes later on.... save the sweat for those episodes.

   

  Dred

  [quote]  ---

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: 601 NR#4 Problems

shear in a "shear web" with properly engineered flanged lightening holes and shear transfer across a structure that is stiffness and buckling critical is completely different. I assumed that he drilled out the holes common to the spar caps and shear web... holes in the shear web would be best "filled" - with almost anything. Holes in the cap/web structure usually "must" be filled or it becomes a locally soft area to buckling loads.



TxDave <dclaytx2(at)hotmail.com> wrote:  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "TxDave" 



Gee whiz! I'm looking at that big 95mm lightening hole in my spar web and am wondering how a tiny little rivet hole is going to create a problem. But then again, I would listen to Mark Townsend. He certainly is more knowledgeable than most of us amateurs on this forum. 



do not archive



Dave  Zodiac 601XL/Corvair?

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