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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Yeah, I know. I just got an HKS on a Northwing trike, but I got the 3.47 box. The trike came with a medium three blade Ivo and I'm going to be real surprised if the moment of inertia falls within that 6000kg cm^2 limit. If it doesn't, I guess I can try it as a two blade.
Rick
On 11/13/06, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
| According to the charts published by CPS, it was right at the upper
limit
|
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Regarding props - I've had very good results with Powerfin props. They are well made, rugged, and have a low moment of inertia. I would use a Warp Drive for sure if I was on floats or operating off a gravel runway because of the metal leading edge.
Prop preferance is kind of like blondes, brunettes, or red heads.
I'll certainly test a warp drive if I can get ahold of one for that purpose.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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| Prop preferance is kind of like blondes, brunettes, or red heads.
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| I'll certainly test a warp drive if I can get ahold of one for that
purpose.
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| --------
| Dave Bigelow
Dave:
Try to keep preference and performance seperated in your HKS test.
Props are the primarly connection between the aircraft and the air we
fly in. Differences in manufacturers and designs reflect in
differences in performance.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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HShack(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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In a message dated 11/15/2006 7:39:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, up_country(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | I'll certainly test a warp drive if I can get ahold of one for that purpose. |
Dave, as dicussed in previous posts, save yourself some trouble & call Warp Drive & ask for the inertia on whatever prop you would use. You will probably fund it is way too high for your gearbox.
I like Warp props; used one for 500 hrs. I'm now using a Kiev prop; like it better.
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
[quote][b]
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:03 am Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Here's an update on the Firestar HKS conversion project. I have the engine mounted, the fuel system and throttle hooked up, the oil tank and heat exchanger mounted, the ignition modules and coils mounted, and am working on the wiring and instruments.
I'm thinking about three weeks until cranking it up for the first time. Here are a few pictures.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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APilot(at)webtv.net
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:53 am Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Did you have a 503 or a 582 on it before?
Vic in Sacramento (Kolb Mark III Classic with the Geo Raven conversion)
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Vic wrote:
| Quote: | | Did you have a 503 or a 582 on it before? |
I had a DCDI 503 with high altitude compensating carbs on it previously.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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I’ve finally finished the installation of the HKS 700E on my Firestar II. I started the engine and did ground runs to pitch the propeller so the engine would not exceed 6,000 RPM. Maximum RPM for the HKS is 6,200 for three minutes, and maximum continuous RPM is 5,800.
I’m using the same two blade 66 inch Powerfin that I used with my 2.58:1 gearbox Rotax 503. The HKS gearbox has the same ratio. I had to add 2 degrees of pitch over what I used with the 503, which tells me that I should get more thrust with the HKS.
The engine idles nicely at 1,500 RPM, and is noticeably smoother and quieter than the 503. The whole package weighs about 20 pounds more than the Rotax 503 installation. The dual ignition requires 12 volts, and is wired to the hot battery bus (direct to battery in parallel with the engine generator driven rectifier).
The fuel system consists of two 12 volt solid state pumps plumbed in parallel. Engine instruments are dual CHT/EGT, oil temperature, oil pressure, volt meter, and fuel tank gauge. I used the Stratomaster “Smart Single” engine instruments, and mounted them on the right side of the pilot seat. Also, I installed Jerry Olenick’s (Green Sky Adventures) HACMan mixture control, which allows manual leaning of the mixture for flight at higher altitudes.
The biggest two challenges were the engine mounts and locating and plumbing the oil system. Jerry Olenick (HKS dealer) and I worked together to design a mounting system that uses the existing Firestar Lord engine mounts without any cutting or welding being necessary. The engine position on the mounts is critical, since if it is too far back or too low, the exhaust manifolds interfere with the wing fold system. Jerry is going to sell a mounting kit for the Firestar once we have all the bugs worked out.
I rigged the Firestar this morning, and did some taxi tests. Engine vibration through the airframe is noticeably less that with the Rotax 503. Also, it takes less engine RPM to get moving and maintain on the grass, which is not surprising, since there is now more prop pitch. I was really tempted to just take off, but restrained myself, since my strip is only 600 feet long, and is at 5,000 feet density altitude. By the time you are moving fast enough to detect a problem, you are too fast to abort. I’ll trailer the Firestar to the Waimea Airport this week and do the test flights there where there is 5,000 feet of runway.
I’ll post the test flight results as soon as I can.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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In a message dated 3/10/2007 9:28:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, up_country(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | I’ve finally finished the installation of the HKS 700E on my Firestar II |
Dave,
Thanks for posting your progress. Looking forward to hearing your flight test report.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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I did the first test flights this morning with my HKS 700E powered Firestar II. The Firestar airframe has 60 hours, but this was the first flight with the HKS engine. I loaded the FS on the trailer and drove it to the Waimea Airport (2,700 msl) early this morning. There’s an approaching late season cold front over the western Hawaiian Islands, and the weather was moist with 900 foot broken at the uncontrolled and lightly used airport. The wind was light and variable. Airport density altitude was 3,500 feet.
I rigged the FS, did a very thorough pre-flight, and taxied out to the 5,000 foot runway. My friend, Woody Woods, took videos. The plan was to do a reduced power takeoff, lift off, and check for trim or any other problems. I added power and lifted off in a gentle climb straight ahead, checked pitch trim and did a quick scan of the engine instruments. All was normal, so I added full throttle and climbed out. I had ground pitched the prop previously for about 6,000 RPM static, and saw 6,200 RPM (engine maximum) during climb, which is exactly what I was shooting for.
I climbed out as high as I could without touching cloud base and flew around the airport area within gliding distance of the runway. I ran the engine stabilized at a number of power settings and noted the engine parameters. CHT was stable in the 250 degree F range, EGT ranged from 1200 – 1400 F, depending on power setting. The EGT bumped the 1400 degree limit of the engine at mid-range power settings in the 4,800 – 5,200 RPM range. Above and below this range, EGT was stable near 1300 degrees. Oil pressure ranged from 26 psi at idle to 75 psi at full throttle. Oil temperature stabilized at 130 degrees F, and remained there for the entire flight.
I did some power on and power off stalls. I could detect no changes in aircraft flight characteristics from the Rotax 503 installation. Pitch trim is very close to that of the Rotax installation, indicating little change in CG position. I did 8 patterns with touch and go’s or stop and go’s. My main impression is an engine that is smooth and has low vibration throughout the operating range. It is much smoother than the 503. Takeoff and climb performance is very similar to the 503. It is definitely at least as powerful as the Rotax 503 at maximum RPM, and produces cruise (55 mph) thrust at an RPM several hundred less than the 503 did. Throttle response is smooth and immediate, and the RPM is stable at whatever throttle setting you choose.
I taxied back to the ramp and took a break. My original plan was to fly home to my 600 foot pasture strip and avoid the wear and tear of trailering home over pot-holed country roads. My strip is at 4,000 feet MSL (5,000 feet density altitude). Things looked pretty dark and overcast in that direction, and I decided to de-rig and park the FS in Woody’s hangar until Wednesday, when I could try again. Just before, I started de-rigging, my wife called and told me it was open at home. I reversed, took off, and headed home. Had to do some scud running at about 500 AGL, but things did open up as I climbed the west slope of Mauna Kea towards home. I did 3 landings and 2 takeoffs on the grass strip. Lift off was within a very few feet of that with the Rotax 503. I really couldn’t see much difference.
Within 30 minutes of shutting down, the clouds popped, and visibility was about 200 feet with fog and light rain.
My overall impression of the engine is very good. It feels “right”. My wife says the noise level on the ground is lower than the 503, and it sounds like a regular light airplane. An added bonus is fuel usage. I flew for 1:20, and used 3.0 gallons of gas. That’s with lots of up and downs. I plan on raising the jet needle one notch to see if I can get a cooler mid-range. Other than that, I can’t think of anything that needs tweaking.
When the weather gets better, Woody (in his Super Cub) and I will fly some formation and see if we can get some airborne pictures. I’ll post them.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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| I did the first test flights this morning with my HKS 700E powered
Firestar II.
| Dave Bigelow
Dave B:
Sounds like you are pretty happy with the HKS. Hope it works out and
folks can start flying FS's with 4 strokes.
Is 130F oil temp normal for this engine? Minimum oil temp for the 912
series is 190F. Has to get this hot to cook off condensation.
One thing I noticed was your FS configuration. Looks like sheet metal
leading edges, vortex generators, and a lot more than normal dihedral.
Does that change flight and performance characteristics from a
standard FS?
Glad it worked out safely for you.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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rowedenny(at)windstream.n
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Good Stuff
Thanks
do not archive
---
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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| Quote: | John Hauck wrote:
Is 130F oil temp normal for this engine? Minimum oil temp for the 912
series is 190F. Has to get this hot to cook off condensation.
One thing I noticed was your FS configuration. Looks like sheet metal
leading edges, vortex generators, and a lot more than normal dihedral.
Does that change flight and performance characteristics from a
standard FS?
Glad it worked out safely for you.
john h
mkIII |
John,
I'm also thinking 130 degree oil temperature may be a bit low - I'll check with the HKS people. Minimum for takeoff is 120 according to the book. I am seeing water droplets condensed on the inside of the oil tank vent line after the engine cools down.
The leading edges are fiberglass. I don't know if it changed things from a standard FS, since I've never flown one other than my own.
I added the dihedral to eliminate spiral instability. I put in just enough so I can let go of the stick without the FS starting a roll-off in one direction or other. Didn't see much change in flight charactoristics other than roll stability with the dihedral, but the VG's dropped the stall speed 5
mph, and give much more solid feeling low speed handling. They say they don't affect the high end, but I think it does require slightly more power for the same cruise speed. Stall is also more pronounced and abrubt with the VG's - much like a sailplane laminar wing stall.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Flew the HKS Firestar II today again. Prior to the flight, I raised the needle jet one notch on both carbs in hopes of eliminating the EGT spike in the mid-range RPM. I also put a strip of duct tape down the center of the oil cooler to see if I could get the oil temperature up. I saw 130 degrees on the first flight, and the manual indicates optimum range of 170-212 degrees F.
The flight went very well. I like this engine! The EGT was more consistent across the entire operational RPM range (no big mid-range spike), running about 1290 degrees at 4,900 RPM. This is at 6,000 feet density altitude. The strip of duct tape across the radiator raised the oil temperature to around 140 degrees - still not high enough. The oil temperature pickup is at the bottom of the tank, so I'm sure the oil coming out of the engine before going through the cooler is higher.
For you Rotax 912 drivers - where is the oil temperature probe located on your installations? Also, what are your EGT's at maximum power, and at 1,000 RPM less than maximuM? The HKS has the same carbs as the 912.
After the flight, I refilled the two five gallon gas tanks (standard Firestar tanks). It took about 4.2 gallons to refill. That is with 2.5 hours running time, with 2.2 hours in the air. Most of the two flights were in the pattern, up and down with a total of 16 landings. I believe ten gallons of fuel will probably equate to 4 hours of flight time with the HKS. Best I could do with the Rotax 503 was 3 hours. That's averaging 50 mph cruise.
More later, as I get more time on the engine.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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| For you Rotax 912 drivers - where is the oil temperature probe
located on your installations? Also, what are your EGT's at maximum
power, and at 1,000 RPM less than maximuM? The HKS has the same carbs
as the 912.
| --------
| Dave Bigelow
Dave:
The 912 oil temp sender is on the back side of the oil pump after it
goes through the oil cooler. That is why the minimum oil temp is
190F. It is much hotter when it comes out the sump and back into the
remote tank.
I have no idea about EGT. I have never had an EGT on any of my 912
engines.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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herbgh
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Dave
Wondering if you checked the oil thremostat housing to see if it has
a thermostat in place? Herb
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:34:33 -0700 "Dave Bigelow"
<up_country(at)hotmail.com> writes:
| Quote: |
<up_country(at)hotmail.com>
Flew the HKS Firestar II today again. Prior to the flight, I raised
the needle jet one notch on both carbs in hopes of eliminating the
EGT spike in the mid-range RPM. I also put a strip of duct tape
down the center of the oil cooler to see if I could get the oil
temperature up. I saw 130 degrees on the first flight, and the
manual indicates optimum range of 170-212 degrees F.
|
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Herb,
There is no housing for an oil thermostat on the HKS that I know of - an oil thermostat can be plumbed externally. Tuning the airflow through the radiator to maintain an acceptable range of temperature is simple, and seems to work well for most people.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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herbgh
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Dave
Pretty sure I saw it on a dealer page somewhere? Maybe a user page?
It does exist... Herb
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:01:28 -0700 "Dave Bigelow"
<up_country(at)hotmail.com> writes:
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herbgh
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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Here it is Dave///
http://world.std.com/~ejb/odyssey/ody_xo4_oil_system.html
Herb
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 19:01:28 -0700 "Dave Bigelow"
<up_country(at)hotmail.com> writes:
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Dave Bigelow
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Firestar II HKS Conversion |
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I flew my HKS powered Firestar II this morning. It’s been pretty windy here on the “Big Island” for the past several days, and this was the first opportunity this week. I wanted to put some time on the engine, so decided to bundle up and see how high I could climb.
This morning was clear with around 100 miles visibility and calm winds on the ground where I live at the 4,000 foot level on the west slope of Mauna Kea. Wind over the 13,976 foot summit was 30-40 mph from the ENE.
I have the “high altitude compensating manual” (HACman) kit made by Jerry Olenick at Greensky Adventures installed on the carbs. It’s simple, and is fail-safe to the normal mixture settings of the carbs. This was a good chance to test how the system works during a long climb.
I took off and set the throttle at 5,800 RPM, the maximum continuous setting for the engine. Climb was pretty robust up to 10,000 feet (20 minutes from 4,000 feet), but then the RPM stared falling off. I progressively leaned the mixture using the EGT as a guide, and had to keep advancing the throttle to maintain 5,800 RPM. I cheated a bit and found an area where weak mountain wave lift was working. It took about 45 minutes from 10,000 feet to top out at 17,200 feet. I still had a slight rate of climb, but was getting cold and hypoxic, so decided to quit. Maximum RPM obtainable at the top was 5,500 RPM, and EGT was 1200 degrees F with the HACman fully opened to the lean position.
The engine never missed a beat. I started with 9 gallons of gas, and finished with 2.5 gallons and 2:30 minutes of flying time. I’ll probably hardly ever go above 10,000 feet, but it is nice to know the engine can do it.
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Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E |
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