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601 dual time
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bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:06 am Post subject: 601 dual time

If you have a pilot certificate but just haven't flown much lately, the 

first thing you should do is find a CFI and get current again in ANY 

airplane. Get back in the air and get comfortable flying again. Then if 

you still have trouble finding a 601, see if you can get some time in a 

few different types. That will get you used to the idea that not all 

airplanes handle the same. I would recommend getting at least some stick 

time in a 601. Then you'll have to decide if you feel comfortable test 

flying your own 601.



-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: Re: 601 dual time

Rick, I can't read a word you type on the forum.



 	  rickpitcher wrote: 	
		  ---

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

rickpitcher

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 76

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: Re: 601 dual time

Give the insurance agent a call and ask if a "similar" aircraft would 

suffice.

The agency that I use for insurance http://www.skysmith.com/ asked for 

recent hours in a 601 when I first asked about insurance. I told them that 

there were no 601's available for rent, but I *could* get a few hours in 

another low-wing fixed gear airpalne prior to my first flight in the Zodiac. 

They agreed to 2 hours in a Cherokee.

No problem... those are available almost everywhere. I went up with the 

FBO's instructor for a couple of hours, got my BFR signed off, and satisfied 

the insurance company's request.



Rick

rickpitcher

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 76

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: Re: 601 dual time

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Frank Derfler" <fderfler>

>  In my personal opinion, the logic behind the less stick

> time criteria for the light sport license is hooie.  Sometimes / often you

> have to have more pilotage skill to do things right in a lighter airplane.

>



I think the logic is that there is a new *minimum*.

Quite a few people have already got some stick time in "fat ultralights" or 

have been flying with other pilots for years. They will benefit from the 

minimum of 20 hours for Sport Pilot v/s 40 hours for Private pilot.

And a few folks are just fast learners.



Rick

rickpitcher

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 76

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 601 dual time

 	  Gig Giacona wrote: 	
		  Rick, I can't read a word you type on the forum.



 	  rickpitcher wrote: 	
		  --- 	
	




Thanks Gig. That seems to happen when I reply to Matronics' emails.

I reposted from the web-based forum.

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: Re: 601 dual time

After reading all the good responses to this subject I feel the need to inject a few more comments.



In preparing to test fly your own XL you need to consider a few factors.



Frequency - Have you been flying enough to keep your skills up?  I would especially practice takeoffs and landings and practice elevator control.  Try making landings where you touch down on the mains and hold the nose off for awhile - use power to assure a smooth touchdown and the elevator to control the nose attitude....  this won't necessarily duplicate the feel of a Zodiac but it requires a little more skill to accomplish smoothly and should help prepare you for the Zodiac's reputed pitch sensitivity.  Did I mention keep it going straight with no side load?

Variety - do you always fly the same aircraft or make/model?  Sometimes you get so used to one plane that even a slight change in flight characteristics can throw you.  If you can get flight time in different aircraft you learn more how to control for desired result as compared to simply flying by rote.  Obviously the stick control will be a little different so some time in a plane with a stick would be helpful.  If you have a friend with a stick airplane go up and do some airwork (especially turns and slow flight)  and just get the feel of it.  Landings would be nice but not necessary to get the "feel."

Instruction - having a CFI along can reduce the stress level and help maximize your training experience.  If you can find a close match to a Zodiac then so much the better.  I taught a guy to fly in a T-tailed Tomahawk and I have never known an airplane where it was so easy to drag the tail.  The elevator was very powerful, even at low speeds.  You had to set the landing attitude and use power to control the final descent to touchdown, much like a larger, heavier aircraft.  The T-hawk is still in use by some flight schools and might be easier to find than a Zodiac...... 



The bottom line is that you should be willing to do what it takes to prepare to safely test fly your aircraft or find someone with more experience to do so.  Don't let ego get in the way as the consequences are far too grave.



Tim



Do not archive

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: 601 dual time

Hi Bill,



My understanding is that an experimental aircraft cannot be used for 

training unless the owner is either the instructor or 

student.  However, there are a few XLs in commercial service that can 

be used for dual instruction.  I have heard of two in California and 

one in Arizona.  There used to be one in Virginia, but that one is no 

longer available.  More may become available in time for your 

transition training.  The folks at AMD are selling them as fast as they can.



I am not personally so concerned about insurance for flight testing, 

but my wife is.  She strongly wants me to have liability coverage for 

any flights.  Must be a gender thing . . .



Paul

XL fuselage (almost done)





At 07:05 AM 7/2/2007, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Paul-

    Sounds like a real Catch-22 situation, especially the risk my 

 CFI would be taking if there were no insurance coverage for at 

 least liability and medical. Same for any soul brave enough to 

 allow dual in his Zodiac. I believe there was a recent post that 

 brought up that subject.

    You're probably not jumping to conclusions, I've got to take off 

 the rose colored glasses and prepare for another bump in the road. 

 Sounds like there are plenty of listers out there in the same boat.

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: 601 dual time

all,

a good trainer for the 601 is the Diamond Katana, same specs in performance r close.  for exception of elevator pitch sensitivity.

put 100 hours in the Katana, and flew the 601 no problem.



Juan



--

mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: 601 dual time

Gig,



I met Jerry Nichols of Jerrich Aircraft at the SWRFI in Hondo about a month

ago.  He is a fairly new rep for Zenith and is located in Arlington near

Dallas/Fort Worth, TX.



I asked him about training and he said that he is almost ready to begin

training folks.  He had an XL at the show, but I am not sure if it was the

one he is talking about training in.

See www.JerrichAircraft.com for info or give him a call at 866-216-6599.



He is a real nice fellow that said he can order parts, sub kits or complete

kits from Zenith for us.  He also had a full kit on hand that he was willing

to discount somewhat a few weeks ago.



This is not paid advertising and I make no promises, just passing on some

info.



Happy Flying and stay dry (good luck),

Matt

XLVair



--

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: 601 dual time

its true that if you do not peg the speed to 60 knts on the nose, it will float, just like a cub floats if you don't peg 55mph.



--

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: 601 dual time

There is an exemption available to allow a homebuilt to be rented for 

the purpose giving someone who has built a similar homebuilt to get 

transition training. I'm not sure how you'd go about getting the 

exemption though.



Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net>

 

 Hi Bill,

 

 My understanding is that an experimental aircraft cannot be used for 

 training unless the owner is either the instructor or student.  However, 

-- 
	


Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:54 am Post subject: Re: 601 dual time

91.319e2 allows flight training in an experimental aircraft that the person receiving training provides - this expires January 31, 2010.



91.319h - you can request a deviation from the FAA to conduct flight training in an experimental aircraft (for compensation).  The request must be made 60 days in advance of the proposed operation.  You must provide a complete description of the proposed operation and justification as to why it should be allowed.  If granted, the deviation may be quite specific as to how and who you may instruct.



Having never instructed in an experimental aircraft I have no idea how these would work in reality.  The EAA would be a good source of info on this subject.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: 601 dual time

601XL flight schools copied from the mysportplane.com web site: 



http://www.mysportplane.com/



A) Dragonfly Aviation - Santa Rosa, CA

Contact: Bob Archibald, Tel: 707-575-8750

B) Thornburgh Flight Training - Torrence, CA

Contact: John at 1-800-971-8710 (v.m.)

C) League of Extraordinary Flyers - Phoenix, AZ

Contact: Sky McCorkle, Tel: 480-785-5835

D) Tulip City Air Services, Inc. - Holland, MI

Contact Ron at 616-392-7831 or 1- 800-748-0515

E) Palm Beach Flight Training, LLC - Lantana, FL

Contact: Mariam Smith, Tel: 561-063-8821

F) Coming soon to an area near you...



Jeff D.

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: 601 dual time

For the past year I have been bookmarking sites that offer training that I 

think looks promising. Looking closely, I find that most of my bookmarks 

are merely other names for the flight schools that Jeff lists.



Thinking that it would be nice to have an updated list available online, I 

decided to post Jeff's list to the Matronics Wiki. The advantage of the 

Wiki is that anyone can add new entries or delete any that are in error. 

Check out:



http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/601_Flight_Training



and see if it works OK for you. And, of course, if you know of any other 

flight schools offering 601 training, add them to the list. Also, if you 

know of flight schools using 601-similar planes like the Tecnam or Diamond 

Katana, add them to the page "Almost 601 flight training."



Terry

At 11:15 AM 7/3/2007 -0400, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



601XL flight schools copied from the mysportplane.com web site:



http://www.mysportplane.com/



A) Dragonfly Aviation - Santa Rosa, CA

Contact: Bob Archibald, Tel: 707-575-8750

B) Thornburgh Flight Training - Torrence, CA

Contact: John at 1-800-971-8710 (v.m.)

C) League of Extraordinary Flyers - Phoenix, AZ

Contact: Sky McCorkle, Tel: 480-785-5835

D) Tulip City Air Services, Inc. - Holland, MI

Contact Ron at 616-392-7831 or 1- 800-748-0515

E) Palm Beach Flight Training, LLC - Lantana, FL

Contact: Mariam Smith, Tel: 561-063-8821

F) Coming soon to an area near you...



Jeff D.




	


Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally--now working on the stab

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: 601 dual time

Phil, come to Georgia and you can get some XL dual time in my plane. We'l make a couple dozen landings and you'll be ready. Best regards, Bill of Georgia 

 

 

 --

steerr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: 601 dual time

I'm in the same situation.  Where are you in GA?  My daughter lives in 

Douglasville, just west of Atlanta.



Thanks.



Bill



do not archive



japhillipsga(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Phil, come to Georgia and you can get some XL dual time in my plane. 

 We'l make a couple dozen landings and you'll be ready. Best regards, 

 Bill of Georgia

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: 601 dual time

Bill, I hanger my XL at Thomaston (OPN) about 50 miles south of Atlanta. If your really wanting to fly some call me to try to set it up.Home- 478-994-9196. Best regards, Bill 

 

 

 --

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